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Old 11-16-2011, 01:14 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, I don't have to revisit them. I know exactly what it means.
Question: in all of these posts, why have you not addressed any of the points in the OP?

God will be all in all: do you believe this?
All will swear allegiance to Christ: do you believe this?
All people will see the salvation of God: do you believe this?
All will be made righteous through Christ just as all were made sinners in Adam: do you believe this?

And chiefly:
All people will have great joy from the good news: DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

If so, why not?
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Sure, but why did you phrase it that way if you didn't want to bicker? You seemed to agree with my words then say they weren't your words in order to bicker, and then complain about me bickering.
That's what I mean by bickering. I clarified it for you, and you just can't stop
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,526,961 times
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Default No, Christ did not say that. He said "kolasis aionion."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Christ said there are two destinations, as I later explained: eternal life and eternal torment.
No, Christ did not say that. He said "kolasis aionion."

Everyone who enters the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

So we are back to your Greek scholars versus ours.

This is why the ET/UR debate will never be resolved.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s,
J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed,
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
AIN -- AINIOS

SEE

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,526,961 times
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Default Since great joy is to all people, it proves salvation after this life time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's what I mean by bickering. I clarified it for you, and you just can't stop
Since great joy is to all people, it proves salvation after this life time because millions die without even hearing about Jesus.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
Reputation: 4328
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Question: in all of these posts, why have you not addressed any of the points in the OP?

God will be all in all: do you believe this?
All will swear allegiance to Christ: do you believe this?
All people will see the salvation of God: do you believe this?
All will be made righteous through Christ just as all were made sinners in Adam: do you believe this?

And chiefly:
All people will have great joy from the good news: DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

If so, why not?
All people, like Herod (for the third time, for crying out loud ) did not have joy form the news the angels delivered. You keep asking the same old questions which have been answered many times, and most even on this thread.

OK. Enough for now. I can't answer questions to three different people.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Since great joy is to all people, it proves salvation after this life time because millions die without even hearing about Jesus.
The news is for all people. The news of great joy. It does not say everyone was joyous, not does it say everyone will be saved, and it goes on to say some people were very upset about the news.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:27 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,815,312 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
All people, like Herod (for the third time, for crying out loud) did not have joy form the news the angels delivered. You keep asking the same old questions which have been answered many times, and most even on this thread.
This does not answer the questions at all.

Scripture says God will be all in all.
Scripture says all people will see the salvation of God.
Scripture says the good news will bring great joy to all people.

You say: Herod did not have joy from the news.

The point remains that He will, sometime, because scripture says it will bring great joy to all people - including Herod.

So your answer didn't even address the points, I don't know why you pretend it did.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:28 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The news is for all people. The news of great joy. It does not say everyone was joyous, not does it say everyone will be saved, and it goes on to say some people were very upset about the news.
It says it will bring great joy to all people. I don't know why you keep missing this.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,526,961 times
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Default But they will stop being upset and will have great joy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The news is for all people. The news of great joy. It does not say everyone was joyous, not does it say everyone will be saved, and it goes on to say some people were very upset about the news.
But they will stop being upset and will have great joy.
After they have been saved, it will bring joy to Herod and the Pharisees too.

We know this because God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants" if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.

A snippet from
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
Reputation: 4328
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
This does not answer the questions at all.

Scripture says God will be all in all.
What does that even mean?

Quote:
Scripture says all people will see the salvation of God.
I don't think God needs salvation, we do.

Quote:
Scripture says the good news will bring great joy to all people.

You say: Herod did not have joy from the news. The point remains that He will, sometime, because scripture says it will bring great joy to all people - including Herod.
No, Herod is where Judas is, and it would have been better if they had never been born.
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