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Old 11-16-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,533,903 times
Reputation: 216
Default What the Word actually says

Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
I'd say it's more like some are choking on the milk of the Word.
What the Word actually says

Sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants" if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.

A snippet from
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:57 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,828,244 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Like who? All believers agree the Gospel is good news. If some don't agree with your personal UR views, it does not mean they do not see the Gospel as good news.
Well as evidenced in this very thread, many call it good news that a few will be saved while the vast majority suffer forever.

The good news will bring great joy to all people. Do you believe this? Will the good news bring great joy to all people? Scripture proclaims it. Do you believe it?
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:06 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,828,244 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Phrases taken out of context and used to promote the lie which originated with Satan for the purpose of distorting the gospel. All men will not be saved. The majority of the human race has not, does not, and will not receive Christ as Savior and will therefore spend eternity in the lake of fire, forever separated from God.

2 Thess 1:6 'For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you. 7] and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire. 8] Dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9] And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

Eternal refers to the eternal future. Unbelievers will be forever separated from God. This is the second death in the lake of fire. It is physical death which is destroyed by the resurrection. Not the second death. Even unbelievers will be resurrected, and then ordered into the eternal fire where they will be tormented forever.
So I am taking verses out of context, but of course you aren't, right? Give me a break Mike.

You are trying to contradict scripture with scripture and then picking the version you prefer - the version that says most people suffer forever.

The "eternal" misinterpretation has been discussed eternally on this board. So we have two groups of verses. Group A says:
- God will be all in all
- God will have all men to be saved
- all people will see the salvation of God
- the good news brings great joy to all people
- all people will bow and worship God
etc.

Then we have Group B that say:
- some are thrown into "eternal fire"
- some are thrown into a lake of fire where they are tormented and the smoke of their torment goes up forever
- there will be "eternal" destruction for some
- no unrighteous inherit "heaven"
- some try to say it is an "eternal" separation
- yet those in the lake of fire are in the "presence of the lamb"

So we have these two groups of "conflicting" scripture, yet one is obviously good and joyful and the other is a horror story. And then it is shown that verses in group B are misunderstood and/or mistranslated.

God can and will save all people.
Yes, no unrighteous people will inherit the reign of God.
Yes, not everyone will reign with Christ.
Yes, not everyone receives Abraham's blessing.
Yet it is Abraham's blessing that in turn blesses all the families of the world.
Yes, ultimately God will be all in all, all will be made alive, all will turn back to Him, and all will be saved.

So stop bringing up verses in "group B" as if they counter verses in "group A". The good news will bring great joy to ALL PEOPLE. Its good news!
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:07 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,828,244 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
What the Word actually says

Sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants" if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.

A snippet from
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
Amen Rodger! Its very telling that people never actually address the verses you post.

Quite simply, God does what He pleases, and it pleases Him to save all people! That is the good news that will bring great joy to all people!
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,651,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Peter is 'rock'. The conversation about this passage begun with someone saying "the gates of Hell will NOT prevail" in order to promote universal salvation, but the passage actually says "the gates of Hell will NOT prevail against the church", (see the quote for exact words) and there is a huge difference.
Nope, the rock and church are both related to who they thought Jesus was. The discussion they were having was about the messiah. See the last sentence of their conversation... He told them to keep his identity a secret. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Christ, who is the rock of the church. That hell is hades. This can also be said: the gates of hades (abode of the dead) will not prevail over Christ. That IS good news just as others have said in this thread.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,789 posts, read 12,143,458 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Well as evidenced in this very thread, many call it good news that a few will be saved while the vast majority suffer forever. The good news will bring great joy to all people. Do you believe this? Will the good news bring great joy to all people? Scripture proclaims it. Do you believe it?
No, no one has said the good news is that majority will suffer. Why do you spin it like that?

All believers agree the Gospel is good news, and the good news is that Christ died for out sins and made salvation available to all people. I believe that.

The news is indeed good, but obviously if you reject it, it will not bring any joy to you. Herod and Pharisees rejected it, and it did not bring joy to them, but than again, you already knew that.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,651,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Nope, the rock and church are both related to who they thought Jesus was. The discussion they were having was about the messiah. See the last sentence of their conversation... He told them to keep his identity a secret. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Christ, who is the rock of the church. That hell is hades. This can also be said: the gates of hades (abode of the dead) will not prevail over Christ. That IS good news just as others have said in this thread.
To elaborate... Death is defeated. Death isn't the end but a new beginning. Death does come. You can go to god willingly now but at death you are going to him anyway.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,533,903 times
Reputation: 216
Post Millions have not had salvation made available to them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
the good news is that Christ died for our sins and made salvation available to all people. I believe that.
Millions of people have lived and died without salvation being made available to them.

But they will be saved later.

We can be sure of this because God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants" if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.

A snippet from
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2011, 12:20 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 497,662 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Nope, the rock and church are both related to who they thought Jesus was. The discussion they were having was about the messiah. See the last sentence of their conversation... He told them to keep his identity a secret. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Christ, who is the rock of the church. That hell is hades. This can also be said: the gates of hades (abode of the dead) will not prevail over Christ. That IS good news just as others have said in this thread.

Jesus was talking to the little rock or pebble, Peter, and said that on this rock (big rock a boulder), meaning on Christ himself (as He is named the Rock, big rock not little rock) was building His church. Yes, building his Church on Himself. (Not on Peter, Catholic Church, etc.)

Jesus said the gates of Hades (Hell) would not prevail (overcome) IT. Jesus is not an IT. He was referring to the church, the body of believers, as he is the HEAD of the BODY of believers of His church.

Matthew 16
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,b the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,c and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesd will not overcome it.e 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bef bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will beg loosed in heaven.” 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,789 posts, read 12,143,458 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Nope, the rock and church are both related to who they thought Jesus was. The discussion they were having was about the messiah. See the last sentence of their conversation... He told them to keep his identity a secret. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Christ, who is the rock of the church. That hell is hades. This can also be said: the gates of hades (abode of the dead) will not prevail over Christ. That IS good news just as others have said in this thread.
Peter means rock in Greek, which is the name Jesus chose for Simon/Peter. Of course Jesus is also referred to as "The Rock", the Truth, which Peter also represented. The church are all the people who follow Christ, and their foundation is Jesus, the rock, the truth, the Gospel. The gates of hades, or representatives of hell, will not overcome the church, the people. They try, but as of today Satan has not been able to destroy the "church".
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