U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-19-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,510,295 times
Reputation: 833

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
But the greatest of these is love.... God IS love. Justice from love is not the same as justice from indifference, anger, or ego.
God is love. And justice. And righetousness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-19-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,293 posts, read 14,153,226 times
Reputation: 10132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The number of times something is mentioned in the bible does not negate one scripture. If the bible says the greatest of something is LOVE, then it need only say it once.
The abundance of love does not remove God's other characteristics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,293 posts, read 14,153,226 times
Reputation: 10132
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I agree.. We all die physically. I'm not sure how a person would die spiritually. I've seen some drug addicts that seem to be alive in body (barely) yet spiritually devoid of life, But even addicts can change. I think if you are 90 years old you deserve death... as a natural course of life.

But gods ways are not ours. If we think all people deserve physical and spiritual death then does god think that way?
Or does god command you to love those that hate you because he loves those who hate him?

Is gods love, justice, and holiness for a purpose or just there to control humans like some mob boss in the sky?
Time is short right now.

Regarding the last question - there is no "purpose" to those things - those characteristics encapsule who He is.

Gotta go for now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,578,671 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Moderator cut: deleted

Regarding Mystic's post...



I said God is holy and just. This means God can not be associated with sin. He separates himself from sin and judges sin as He sees fit. That's what He did with Adam. Adam was removed from God's presence in the garden and he received a judgment of death, both spiritual and physical.

In all the focus on God's love - His holiness and justice gets lost in the discussion - but these are clearly attributes of God that must be taken into account.
God's LOVE IS HOLY. God's MERCY is his GLORY. His Power is not like
human power. God's POWER is through his love, Man's power is through
brute force. I really wish more of God's people actually understood the
true power of God's love. There is nothing more powerful in the universe.
Love is stronger than death.

______________________________________
Selected Verses From The Song of Songs (from the bible)

Your Love is Better than Wine

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth!
For your love is better than wine. ...

Ah, you are beautiful, my love;
ah, you are beautiful;
your eyes are doves.
Ah, you are beautiful, my beloved,
truly lovely.
Our couch is green;
the beams of our house are cedar,
our rafters are pine. ...

Arise, My Love, My Fair One

My beloved speaks and says to me:
"Arise, my love, my fair one,
and come away;
for now the winter is past,
the rain is over and gone.
The flowers appear on the earth;
the time of singing has come,
and the voice of the turtledove
is heard in our land.
The fig tree puts forth its figs,
and the vines are in blossom;
they give forth fragrance.
Arise, my love, my fair one,
and come away. ...

How Beautiful You Are

How beautiful you are, my love,
how very beautiful!
Your eyes are doves
behind your veil.
Your hair is like a flock of goats,
moving down the slopes of Gilead.
Your teeth are like a flock of shorn ewes
that have come up from the washing,
all of which bear twins,
and not one among them is bereaved.
Your lips are like a crimson thread,
and your mouth is lovely.
Your cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate
behind your veil.
Your neck is like the tower of David,
built in courses;
on it hang a thousand bucklers,
all of them shields of warriors.
Your two breasts are like two fawns,
twins of a gazelle,
that feed among the lilies.
Until the day breathes
and the shadows flee,
I will hasten to the mountain of myrrh
and the hill of frankincense.
You are altogether beautiful, my love;
there is no flaw in you. ...

Love is Stronger Than Death

Set me as a seal upon your heart,
as a seal upon your arm;
for love is stronger than death,
passion fiercer than the grave.
Its flashes are flashes of fire,
a raging flame.
Many waters cannot quench love,
neither can floods drown it.
If one offered for love
all the wealth of one's house,
it would be utterly scorned.
__________________________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 12:23 PM
 
166 posts, read 134,052 times
Reputation: 72
From: TheoGeek:
 
Quote:
You need to recognize that he is wrathful as well.
We also need to remeber this:

Isaiah 57-15For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made

and

Psalms 103-6 The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed. 7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. 8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. 9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.

and

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Time is short right now.

Regarding the last question - there is no "purpose" to those things - those characteristics encapsule who He is.

Gotta go for now.
But Thessalonians says: For God's purpose for us is not wrath, but salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who was put to death for us, so that, awake or sleeping, we may have a part in his life.

Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

So what is gods purpose?

Because it is God's purpose that our way of life may be not unclean but holy.

Your version of gods purpose is simply to avenge his good name but scripture says his purpose is salvation and holiness. If an unholy man dies and is sent to a place of everlasting torment, how then does god accomplish his purpose? How does a man achieve holiness in everlasting torment after death?

I must assume all gods wrath then is for use now while we live not after death because it doesn't accomplish gods purpose.

If gods purpose is to save mankind and create a holy people with his justice... Does the Christian hell do anything to mitigate that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by boanerges View Post
From: TheoGeek:
 


We also need to remeber this:

Isaiah 57-15For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made

and

Psalms 103-6 The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed. 7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. 8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. 9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.

and

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
So at what point does gods character cause him to count sins against you? Is it his justice that changes his mind about mercy? Is it his holiness that prevents him from seeing the unrighteous as righteous?

Great point boanerges.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 12:48 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The abundance of love does not remove God's other characteristics.

Never said it did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,124,426 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If you have to ask . . . you don't have the spiritual development to understand the answer.
I second that emotion!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2011, 08:27 PM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Indeed, that doesn't change the scripture or what it is saying about God. It is saying , GOD IS LOVE and all he does is based on that.

And that does not prevent all he does from being in perfect harmony.




LOL, God is LOVE, that is the basis for everything.




God is LOVE and is entirely true to his justice. He won't be true to YOURS.




Actually, it was love that did that too, because his justice is for the benefit of mankind.




Which is also LOVE.





Your Justice certainly may conclude that.
Since the fall of man, mans point of contact with God is His Justice, not His love. All of God's attributes work together in harmony, but in dealing with sinful mankind, all of God's attributes must go through His Justice. Love can only bless, as it did before the fall. But Divine Justice can both bless and curse. Since the unbeliever will not adjust to the Justice of God in salvation, the Justice of God will leave Him under eternal condemnation.

It is God's Justice that both provided the means of salvation through imputations, and which leaves in condemnation all who refuse God's offer of salvation. God cannot and will not allow His love to compromise His Justice.

Universalists need to learn doctrine instead of relying on their emotions. The Scriptures are clear that the unbeliever is to be sentenced to eternity in the lake of fire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top