U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-20-2011, 07:42 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,051,435 times
Reputation: 17783

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
God also removed Satan and his demonic followers after they rebelled from heaven. The eternal damnation that awaits the unbeliever is the result of people rejecting God by following Satan's lies and delusions.
This is so worth repeating.....
We never know that there could possibly be a lurker or even someone who post here in whom is wrestling with God's truth and the lies of satan and God is leading them to His truth through all this darkness that satan is trying to deceive !!

At times when we hear someone testifies like your post about God's truth.... it creates a desire, hunger to go and seek God and His word.
And that is just what God wanted for that seeking heart..... to dig deep into His word and then all of a sudden the Light of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit breaks through to the heart of one who has or is seeking for God's genuine love and truth from the lies of those of the darkness in this forum, world, satan and sin... amen !!

Keeping speaking and spreading the truth of God !!

Blessings...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-20-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,428 posts, read 29,579,247 times
Reputation: 29947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” (John 10:17-18)

Such selfless love as our Lord.... NO man will ever understand !!
Yet, those in wanton, having pride in the heart of man speaks such empty knowledge of their selfish logic and reasoning in which only brings forth foolishness upon themselves.

Christ our Lord God..... ONLY has the ability, authority, and power to give and take life, His and that of His creation !!

He was perfectly voluntary in his sufferings and death (John 10:18): “No one doth or can force My life from me against My will, but I freely lay it down of Myself, I deliver it as My own act and deed, for I have (which no man has) power to lay it down, and to take it again.”

1st,....
We see here the power of Christ, as the Lord of life, particularly of His own life, which He had in Himself.

1. He had power to keep His life against all the world, so that it could not be wrested from Him without His own consent. Though Christ’s life seemed to be taken by storm, yet really it was surrendered, otherwise it had been impregnable, and never taken. The Lord Jesus did not fall into the hands of His persecutors because He could not avoid it, but threw Himself into their hands because his hour was come.
No man taketh My life from me. This was such a challenge as was never given by the most daring hero.


2. He had power to lay down his life.
  • (1.) He had ability to do it. He could, when He pleased, slip the knot of union between soul and body, and, without any act of violence done to Himself, could disengage them from each other: having voluntarily taken up a body, He could voluntarily lay it down again, which appeared when He cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
  • (2.) He had authority to do it, exousian. Though we could find instruments of cruelty, wherewith to make an end of our own lives, yet Id possumus quod jure possumus—we can do that, and that only, which we can do lawfully.
    We are not at liberty to do it; but Christ had a sovereign authority to dispose of His own life as He pleased. He was no debtor (as we are) either to life or death, but perfectly sui juris.
3. He had power to take it again; we have not. Our life, once laid down, is as water spilt upon the ground; but Christ, when He laid down His life, still had it within reach, within call, and could resume it. Parting with it by a voluntary conveyance, He might limit the surrender at pleasure, and He did it with a power of revocation, which was necessary to preserve the intentions of the surrender.

2ndly,...

We see here the grace of Christ; since none could demand His life of Him by law, or extort it by force, He laid it down of Himself, for our redemption. He offered Himself to be the Saviour:
Lo, I come; and then, the necessity of our case calling for it, He offered Himself to be a sacrifice: Here am I, let these go their way; by which will we are sanctified, Heb. 10:10. He was both the offerer and the offering, so that his laying down his life was his offering up himself.

Amen...


John 10:16-18 NKJV - And other sheep I have which are not of - Bible Gateway
AMEN!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2011, 11:26 PM
 
17,844 posts, read 8,918,122 times
Reputation: 1497
Originally Posted by twin.spin
God also removed Satan and his demonic followers after they rebelled from heaven. The eternal damnation that awaits the unbeliever is the result of people rejecting God by following Satan's lies and delusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
This is so worth repeating.....
We never know that there could possibly be a lurker or even someone who post here in whom is wrestling with God's truth and the lies of satan and God is leading them to His truth through all this darkness that satan is trying to deceive !!

At times when we hear someone testifies like your post about God's truth.... it creates a desire, hunger to go and seek God and His word.
And that is just what God wanted for that seeking heart..... to dig deep into His word and then all of a sudden the Light of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit breaks through to the heart of one who has or is seeking for God's genuine love and truth from the lies of those of the darkness in this forum, world, satan and sin... amen !!

Keeping speaking and spreading the truth of God !!
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels!

These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, all under the authority
of the Emperors who required a national
amalgamated religion to solidify their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour; the gullible.

Last edited by Jerwade; 11-20-2011 at 11:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,578,671 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post

Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels!

These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, all under the authority
of the Emperors who required a national
amalgamated religion to solidify their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour; the gullible.
The Narrow and Wide Gates 13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.



A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,124,426 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels!

These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, all under the authority
of the Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidify their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour; the gullible.
AMEN Jerwade!!! You can educate a man...but you can't make him think. Just saying...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 12:45 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Since the fall of man, mans point of contact with God is His Justice, not His love.

Not true, we are always in contact with his love. Because God is love, even if we are subject to his attributes that don't feel like we think Love ought to be.



Quote:
All of God's attributes work together in harmony
Never said they didn't.


Quote:

, but in dealing with sinful mankind, all of God's attributes must go through His Justice.
Not denying Gods justice, still doesn't change a thing, Gods attributes going through Justice is your opinion, Since God Is Love and that is the greatest thing, then Scripture tells us other than what you are saying.

Quote:

Love can only bless,
True, and that is why ALL God does is for the benefit of everyone.

Quote:
Universalists need to learn doctrine instead of relying on their emotions.
Actually it is you that are relying on emotion. You talk about love through feelings. Gods love at some point in our lives may not feel like, or look like it is for our benefit, but it is.

Gods wrath may not feel like it is for someones benefit, but it is. So it is you that is basing your opinion on feelings, not me.

I have seen Gods work in my life and sometimes I do not feel very loved by God, but in my heart I know all he does is for my benefit.


Being in Gods hands is the best place ANYONE can be, there is no better place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 03:58 PM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Not true, we are always in contact with his love. Because God is love, even if we are subject to his attributes that don't feel like we think Love ought to be.

Not denying Gods justice, still doesn't change a thing, Gods attributes going through Justice is your opinion, Since God Is Love and that is the greatest thing, then Scripture tells us other than what you are saying.
Man's point of contact with God is His Justice. Not His love. Before the fall, Adam's point of contact with God was God's love. But God's love could not keep Adam from dying spiritually when he sinned. Since the fall, man's point of contact with God is divine Justice. It was divine Justice which imputed man's sins to Jesus Christ on the cross, and which imputes God's very own Righteousness to those who believe in Jesus Christ. It is divine Justice which saves and which keeps saved all who believe in Christ and guarantees that the believer can never lose his salvation as Adam did when he sinned. Divine Justice provided salvation for Adam and provides it for everyone who places his faith in Christ. God's love must go through His Justice when dealing with imperfect beings.

Quote:
Actually it is you that are relying on emotion. You talk about love through feelings. Gods love at some point in our lives may not feel like, or look like it is for our benefit, but it is.
Gods wrath may not feel like it is for someones benefit, but it is. So it is you that is basing your opinion on feelings, not me.
Emotion has no bearing on what is reality and what is not. God's love cannot save anyone. It could only motivate God to provide salvation based on His Justice. God cannot and will not compromise His Justice to save even one person. Above all else, God loves His own holiness.

Phazelwood, you talk about things of which you have no understanding. You don't understand the issue, and apparently don't want to. What I say is based on doctrine. Not wishful thinking. God loved the world and so provided the means of salvation, but the mechanics for making that salvation possible is based on Justice. Not love. Salvation is made possible because of a series of judicial imputations. The imputation of our personal sins to Jesus Christ on the cross. The imputation of God's own Righteousness and eternal life to those who believe in Christ. A distinction must be made between motivation and mechanics.

The divine justice which saves those who receive Christ as Savior is the same divine justice which leaves in condemnation those who reject Christ as Savior.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:03 PM
 
37,606 posts, read 25,300,228 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Emotion has no bearing on what is reality and what is not. God's love cannot save anyone. It could only motivate God to provide salvation based on His Justice. God cannot and will not compromise His Justice to save even one person. Above all else, God loves His own holiness.
It is beyond obvious, Mike . . . that you have never met God. You are relying on the "precepts and doctrines of men" so you do not have the foggiest idea what God is really like. You will remain in this misguided state until you actually attempt to encounter God and experience His unconditional love and acceptance for yourself. You are in my prayers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:58 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Phazelwood, you talk about things of which you have no understanding.

Well, Mike, that is always possible, I just have to say that it is just as valid to say that you do not.

Oh, yeah, you can post some link to all your doctrinal teacher, but big whoopidy doo, that doesn't mean you understand a thing.

For the most part, conversations with you always end up with you making some kind of statement like this as if that ends the argument.

Reality is, you simply have nothing to say to refute the scriptural truth of Gods character.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2011, 10:30 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,595,592 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Humans have very little resources to use when it come to correcting misbehavior in other humans. Thinking from a mortal standpoint there may be justification, but does god need to justify his actions? The bible says to love your enemies and do good to those who hate you. Is torment by god good simply because he's god? That's fairly hypocritical. IMO.

What sins do humans commit against god? God must not have heard the adage that the punishment should fit the crime. Eternal gods aren't required to have eternal punishments...



I agree, god is all those things, the greatest of which is love. The holiness and justice of god come out of his love. What part of torment is loving??

Quote:
God must not have heard the adage that the punishment should fit the crime.
God is both just and fair so instead of listening to and going by what man teaches, read/learn what God says about punishment for the wicked.

Read the Scriptures instead of listening to the man made doctrine of hell and eternal torment taught by and invented by men; namely Dante and Milton.

What does God say about punishment for the wicked? Does He say they shall be tormented for ever and ever? No. This is what God says:

Ps 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away

Ps 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Ps 106:18 And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked.

This idea that God will cast ppl into 'hell' where the devil is, where there's fire/brimstone and eternal torment is a misunderstanding of Christ's usage of the words 'hell fire.'

He is not speaking of the 'hell' taught by Dante, but was using a metaphor for the lake of fire/second death.

He used the word geenna which refers to the Valley of Hinnom which was the garbage dumb outside of Jerusalem where the fire never went out, the worms never died etc etc.

There was no NT when Christ walked the earth. He taught what the OT teaches and that is the wicked shall be consumed/turned to ashes.

It's time ppl that we put the hell/torment/for ever and ever to rest and stop putting words in God's mouth that He did not say and or teach.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top