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Old 12-02-2011, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,995 posts, read 29,823,150 times
Reputation: 13094

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Did Hawyaw not tell them 'of this tree you may not eat'?...


Gen 2:9 And out of the ground Jehovah God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food. The Tree of Life was also in the middle of the garden; also the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Eating you may eat of every tree in the garden;

Gen 2:17 but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die.

So, here at this point he knew he was not permitted to eat of the Tree of Knowledge....

Gen 3:1 And the serpent was cunning above every animal of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said to the woman, Is it true that God has said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?

Gen 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden,

Gen 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.

Verses 2 and 3 indicate that she also knew...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said to the woman, Dying you shall not die,

Gen 3:5 for God knows that in the day you eat of it, even your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise. And she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed leaves of the fig tree, and made girdles for themselves.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day. And the man and his wife hid themselves from the face of Jehovah God in the middle of the trees of the garden.

Gen 3:9 And Jehovah God called to the man and said to him, Where are you?

Gen 3:10 And he said, I have heard Your sound in the garden, and I was afraid, for I am naked, and I hid myself.

Gen 3:11 And He said, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?

Here is an affirmation of the command of Hawyaw...

Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom You gave to be with me, she has given to me of the tree, and I ate.

What difference does it make weather he took it himself or she gave it to him...He knew he was not supposed to...He tried to pass the buck...

Gen 3:13 And Jehovah God said to the woman, What is this you have done? And the woman said, The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

Now here, she tries to pass the buck...She also knew better...

I all looks pretty willful to me...
I am familiar with the scriptures you've quoted, Richard. I merely see them from a different perspective. Think of a little child, a three-year-old, whose mother tells him not to touch the hot stovetop. That brightly glowing red coil is just too enticing, though, and he can't resist. The result is that he gets burned. He probably also learns that his mother knows something he doesn't. In the future, he may be more likely to listen to her. Perhaps you see that child as having sinned. I don't. I see him as having made an error in judgment, knowing what he was told, but not fully understanding that disobedience is wrong.

The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would give Adam and Eve a knowledge of good and evil -- which is something they did not have before eating it. I believe it is impossible to sin without first having an understanding of right and wrong. If Adam and Eve had had a knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, there would have been no point to their eating it.

God essentially said, "Don't do this. If you do, here's what will happen to you... you'll die."

Adam and Eve choose to do it anyway and reaped the consequences. Their transgression was done without the knowledge of good and evil. That's how I see it. It's merely the interpretation that makes the most sense to me.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:54 AM
 
63,565 posts, read 39,855,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I am familiar with the scriptures you've quoted, Richard. I merely see them from a different perspective. Think of a little child, a three-year-old, whose mother tells him not to touch the hot stovetop. That brightly glowing red coil is just too enticing, though, and he can't resist. The result is that he gets burned. He probably also learns that his mother knows something he doesn't. In the future, he may be more likely to listen to her. Perhaps you see that child as having sinned. I don't. I see him as having made an error in judgment, knowing what he was told, but not fully understanding that disobedience is wrong.
If only people would recognize that we had just been created. We were mere infant Spirits (Souls) with no knowledge of good or evil (As we all are . . . "As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be . . ."). We had to learn the distinction. That is the heart of the metaphor of Eden. We all have the exact same experience at the beginning of life . . . with parents as our all-providing god, etc. Well said, Katz.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,995 posts, read 29,823,150 times
Reputation: 13094
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If only people would recognize that we had just been created. We were mere infant Spirits (Souls) with no knowledge of good or evil (As we all are . . . "As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be . . ."). We had to learn the distinction. That is the heart of the metaphor of Eden. We all have the exact same experience at the beginning of life . . . with parents as our all-providing god, etc. Well said, Katz.
Thanks, Mystic.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,198,160 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I agree, but I also believe that sin does not exist without the knowledge of good and evil. Giving in to the will to choose evil over good is what constitutes sin.

No, he didn't. But until after he ate it, he was not able to discern between good and evil.
And that statement my friends opens up a HUGE can of worms...anyone care to comment???
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,995 posts, read 29,823,150 times
Reputation: 13094
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
And that statement my friends opens up a HUGE can of worms...anyone care to comment???
How about a new thread? You want to start it or should I?
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,198,160 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
How about a new thread? You want to start it or should I?
I will give you the honors and look forward to the responses.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:30 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,941,988 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Richard,

You hop in on a conversation days later posting like you know what's going on...

NEWSFLASH! I had my own personal reasons (at that time) for that post to jdelectro. The time has passed now and is water under the bridge. It wasn't posted to Richard...it's history now, so move on.
Now why am I not surprised?...
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:43 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,941,988 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I am familiar with the scriptures you've quoted, Richard. I merely see them from a different perspective. Think of a little child, a three-year-old, whose mother tells him not to touch the hot stovetop. That brightly glowing red coil is just too enticing, though, and he can't resist. The result is that he gets burned. He probably also learns that his mother knows something he doesn't. In the future, he may be more likely to listen to her. Perhaps you see that child as having sinned. I don't. I see him as having made an error in judgment, knowing what he was told, but not fully understanding that disobedience is wrong.

The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would give Adam and Eve a knowledge of good and evil -- which is something they did not have before eating it. I believe it is impossible to sin without first having an understanding of right and wrong. If Adam and Eve had had a knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, there would have been no point to their eating it.

God essentially said, "Don't do this. If you do, here's what will happen to you... you'll die."

Adam and Eve choose to do it anyway and reaped the consequences. Their transgression was done without the knowledge of good and evil. That's how I see it. It's merely the interpretation that makes the most sense to me.
I just look at the black and white...I take it for what it says...Sin is disobeidience to Hawyaw's commands, plain and simple...Even scripture states in many places that what Adam did was sin...sin is sin...Adam AND Eve both ignored what Hawyaw commanded them...They sinned...I do notice that it does not state because of Adam and Eve's sin...But because of Adam's sin...I would say that because woman was made for man and not man for woman that Adam was considered the head of Eve and that made him not only responsible for his own actions but also Eve's as well...He was supposed to be the leader...
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:34 AM
 
1 posts, read 730 times
Reputation: 11
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Repent again I say repent. Pray always without ceasing and we will not have to worry about sin.
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