You are Born Again the Moment you believe in Christ (Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ)

[garya123]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Being "born again" has only to do with Circumcision believers of Israel. It has nothing to do with the nations. The nations have it even better for they are "a new creation in Christ."

ROM 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
ROM 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by garya123

MT 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The soul is the container for what ever spirit you are of, human or animal. It is written, "The soul that sins shall die." The dead soul shall can not enter into God's presence here or in Heaven.

It is written, "What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his only soul." Christ is the quicking Spirit that restores the spirit of man to God so that his soul might live. Many do not even acknowlege they have a soul and it is because they are not connected to God. Their human spirit is unable to acknowlege God as Father because they live for self. God as Father is a family relationship that can only be had by being adopted by His Spirit into that family because the soul is made alive unto Him and not to self.

REV 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The redeemed soul does go to Heaven.
HEB 6:19 "Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;"

Mr 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own *soul [psuche]?

*soul, psuche=life as in v. 35

Mr. 8:35 For whosoever will save his life [psuche] shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life [psuche] for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

Heb. 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, [psuche] both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the *veil;

Psuche as used here means the life of a man and occurs 58 time and is rendered either soul or life.

*veil katapetasma something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen (to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple


Eze 18:20 The soul [nephesh] that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

nephesh a breathing creature

MT 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: [psuche] but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here in v. 28 psuche is used of the life of a man which can be lost,destroyed, layed down, saved etc etc.

Here's a few examples:

Matt. 2: 20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life. [psuche]

Matt. 6:25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life,[psuche] what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Matt. 10:39 He that findeth his life [psuche] shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, [psuche] or to destroy it?

Matt. 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? [psuche] or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?[psuche]

!Thess. 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, [psuche] because ye were dear unto us.


Now let's apply some common sense to this verse:

REV 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls [psuche] of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

Here the word psuche is used of man as an individual [just as we speak of a ship going down with every soul or so many 'lives' being lost]

Psuche with this meaning is use 14 times in the Scriptures. [Acts 2:41,43; 3:23; 7:14; 27:37; Rom 2:9; 13:1; 1 Corin. 15:45; James 5:20; 1 Pet. 3:20; 2 Pet. 2:14; Rev. 6:9; 18:13; 20:4].

Now let's apply the common sense here. IF psuche here means a soul, as you are definding it, then how could 'it' have been beheaded? Only a flesh being; a living creature could have been beheaded.

Psuche is also used as a pronoun: we, you, mind, myself; as here:

"mind"

Acts 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds [psuche]evil affected against the brethren.

"us"


John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us [psuche] to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

"you"

1 Corin.12:15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; [psuche] though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.


So we see the words nephesh and psuche mean life, man, we, us, or myself.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by Mike555
The soul and the human spirit are two different things. Everyone has, or more accurately, is a soul. The believer also has a human spirit. The soul and human spirit of the believer go to heaven at the moment of death. The soul of the unbeliever, who has no human spirit, goes to the 'torments' side of Hades at the moment of death. It is the human spirit by which a believer relates to God. God imputes His Righteousness to the human spirit. The human spirit is given at the moment of faith in Christ.

Refer to Revelation 6:9-11, 7:9-10, and 20:4 where the souls of tribulational martyrs are shown to be in heaven. This is prior to the resurrection of their bodies. But there appears to be an interim body of some sort prior to receiving a resurrection body. The Elders mentioned in Revelation 7:11, a reference to the 24 Elders, most likely represents the church. The church-age believer will have prevously been resurrected.[/quote]


[quote=mshipmate;21833945]

There is no Scripture that teachs the 'soul' goes to heaven upon death.

I just gave you three passages in Revelation that shows that the soul does go to heaven at death. Refer to them.

Also we don't have a soul; we are a soul: a living breathing creature. In the Hebrew there's no combination of the 'body' and 'soul.' That is of Greek and Latin origin.

Refer back to what I said. I said the believer has a soul, or more accurately, is a soul.

The word nephesh doesn't refer to an immortal soul and can be seen by way the word it's used in the OT.

Again, go to the passages I gave you in Revelation and you can see that the soul goes to heaven at death. Then go to Matthew 10:28 and see that physical death does not destroy the soul.

The soul [nephesh] who sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20).

The Jewish philosopher Philo taught:... The death of a man is the separation of his soul from his body ..." (The Works of Philo, translated by C.D. Yonge, 1993, p. 37).

Then Philo followed this Hellenistic view: the soul is freed upon death to an everlasting life of virtue or evil.

Here David uses the word soul to mean Christ's body:

Psa. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Peter also quotes this same passage in Act 2:27 using psuche for the Hebrew nephesh.

But more importantly Christ taught that death was sleep and that He would raise His followers to life at the last day.

Also our 'spirit' is given by God at our natural birth and we became a living soul. [Just as God breathed into Adam the breath of life and he became a living soul]

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it state our human spirit is what relates to God or that our 'human spirit' is given at the moment of faith in Christ.

If that were correct than we humans would be literally dead til we find Christ and confess our believe/faith in Him/His sacrifice etc. since the word spirit means: breath, wind, or mind.

Jesus did not teach soul sleep. Sleep is simply a metaphor to descibe the body in death. It does not refer to the soul.

Leave Greek philosophers out of it. The Bible teaches that the soul and human spirit goes into the presence of God at death. Paul, who had previously been taken up into heaven (2 Cor 12:1-6), either in a vision, or perhaps when he was stoned (see Acts 14:19) some 14 years prior to his statement in 2 Cor 12:1-6, at which time he may of actually died and gone to heaven, stated in 2 Cor 5:8 that he preferred to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Since he said 'absent from the body' he was not referring to the resurrection. He was referring to heaven where he had previously been before, again, either in a vision or because he had actually died and gone to heaven.

But this is off topic. If you want to pursue it, do it on a new thread. Not here.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

You've really not "shown" me anything except your doctrinal errors. Nowhere does scripture present the idea of regeneration occurring in the time frame (order of salvation) that you give it. The least you can do is be honest here with the texts your trying to use for support. Regardless of how often you repeat your arguments, or point to websites that try and prove your doctrines, you'll fail with regards to what the scripture and words of the text actually say.

Yes, I do reject your Arminian teachings. They are un-scriptural and reject the truth presented in the scriptures. No matter how many times you repeat your rant, it will not change what the scriptures actually say.

The act of regeneration does not represent the entire process of being "saved", rather regeneration is a component within the salvation process. Quoting Acts 16:31 does not help you out here. Further, regeneration is really not the topic being expressed between Paul and the jailer, as recorded by Luke. Why you would appeal to this text to support your theory of faith proceeding regeneration, or the erroneous believe of "common grace" with respect to the Gospel (better known as "prevenient grace"), is rather odd.

The more you post the more it becomes painfully obvious (to me anyway) that you simply do not understand biblical terms, ideas and concepts. Nor do the teachers from which you derive those doctrines.

Regeneration is nothing less than being given eternal life. Being born again - born from above - born of the Spirit, and therefore being eternally saved. A person is saved because he has been regenerated. As already stated, when a person believes in Christ, the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit to which God the Father imputes His Perfect Righteousness. Also imputed is God's eternal life. None of this happens until a person first believes in Christ.

There can be no regeneration until a person first believes in Christ. A person cannot believe in Christ until the Holy Spirit first convicts him of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness and of judgment as per John 16:8-11.

Acts 16:31 does indeed prove the point. 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (because of having been regenerated - born again - born from above - born of the Spirit.

Faith in Christ results in regeneration - being born again, and therefore eternally saved.

[kids in america_]

Originally Posted by Mike555

There are a lot of things said on this forum that are quite simply false. One such example is given below.

The following two comments were made by the same poster on two different threads. The poster claims that no one is born again until they die physically and are reborn as spirit. This of course is not true.


1).'There is no one still alive in their physical body who is "born again." The only way to be "born again" is to die and be reborn as Spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh (and remains so). That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, period. Unless you can flit around like the wind you are NOT "born again." '


2). ' "Re-Generation" is what Christ achieved for our entire species . . . He began a new "spiritual generation" upon His rebirth as Spirit and making His Holy Spirit available to us ALL within our consciousness (embryo Spirit). The "born again" believers have it out of order. We are "pregnant" (i.e., begotten "born of God") . . . not reborn . . . UNTIL our physical death and rebirth as Spirit (like Christ). We can't be "reborn" until we are "unborn" (die) from this life. Flesh is born as Flesh . . Spirit is born as Spirit.'


The poster has used John 3:6 to arrive at a conclusion which is unscriptural.

To be regenerated means to be born again which is saying the same thing as being born from above, or born of God, and occurs only when, and at the moment a person places his faith in Jesus Christ.

Regeneration is one of the salvation ministries of God the Holy Spirit and has occurred in every dispensation of human history. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the other hand is a ministry of the Holy Spirit that occurrs only during the the Church-age. No one was ever indwelt by the Holy Spirit prior to the church-age. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not the same as enduement, which did occur in the age of Israel. Induement was given for the purpose of accomplishing specific tasks, and could be taken away because of disobedience. Only a few people were ever endued in the age of Israel. In the church-age every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and that indwelling is permanent and cannot be taken away.

The word 'Regeneration' is from the Greek word Palingenesias - Paliggenesis. Paling - again, genesias - birth, beginning. Regeneration means to be born again - a new birth. To be reborn.

In John 3:8 Jesus told Nicodemus that ''The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.''

Regeneration is being born again, being reborn, born of the Spirit. Jesus said to Nicodemus, ''so is everyone who is born (who has been born) of the Spirit.'' The phrase 'has been born' is translated from gegennemenos and is in the Perfect tense. The Perfect tense means completed action with results continuing on in full effect. A person is born again the very moment he places his faith in Christ for salvation.

1 Peter 1:23 'for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 'For you have been born again' is translated from 'anagegennemenoi' - born again, from above, and is Present tense.

HELP'S Word studies
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
Strong's Greek: 313. ????????? (anagennaó) -- to beget again

The claim that the believer cannot be reborn until physical death and rebirth as spirit is completely unscriptural.

As a matter of fact, the phrase 'born again Christian' is actually redundant. If you are a Christian, you have been born again. If you have been born again, you are a Christian.

The claim that Jesus was reborn as Spirit is also completely unscriptural and is rooted in Gnosticism. Jesus' body was resurrected. He was not reborn. His body was resurrected as a glorified body of flesh and bone. Not as an immaterial spirit.

If you are a believer in Jesus Christ you have been born again, and don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.

Mike we are born again in the sense that we are conceived. We are conceived in this life by the Spirit of ‘god’. So now we’re as it were in the womb. We’re developing and growing. We will not be “born again” until we are resurrected with a “imperishable, glorified, and powerful spiritual body" (see 1Co 15:42-44).

This will all take place when ‘Jesus’ comes, and then we enter the kingdom of ‘god’. We are then born out of the spirit in that kingdom.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Combining posts #24 and 25.

Combining posts now are we.... I guess I should answer this one too.

Alabama, in the very first post, I said the following; 'Regeneration is being born again, being reborn, born of the Spirit. Jesus said to Nicodemus, ''so is everyone who is born (who has been born) of the Spirit.'' The phrase 'has been born' is translated from gegennemenos and is in the Perfect tense. The Perfect tense means completed action with results continuing on in full effect. A person is born again the very moment he places his faith in Christ for salvation.'

Yes, the Greek perfect tense is used to indicate a past tense event and I'm not disputing that. However, there is nothing in Joh 3:8 that links regeneration as being the outcome of faith, as you've so state, in red, above. The text does not even hint at that idea. Nor should you.

Regeneration is the Holy Spirit causing the spiritually dead unbeliever to be born again. It is the giving of eternal life to those who first believe in Christ. However, the believer still retains his old nature - his Old Sin Nature.

Again, your quote in red is not in any text that speaks to regeneration by the Spirit.

John 1:12

and 13 are to be taken together. Regeneration is one of the salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit. When a person believes in Christ, the result is that the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit to which God the Father imputes His Perfect Righteousness. God also imputes His eternal life to that person. When a person has, as a result of trusting Christ for salvation, received God's Perfect Righteousness and eternal life, he has been born again. He has been regenerated. Faith precedes regeneration.

Nothing in Joh 1:12-13 says anything about what you've posted, in red. That language, or even understanding when reading the text, is simply not found in the scriptures.

1 John 5:1

is simply saying that whoever believes in Christ has been born of God. They have been born of God because they have first believed in Christ.

Sorry, that is not what the text says either. It easier to post the text so we can read what it says. Here, it is:

1Jn 5:1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him:

"Believing" is being used in the Greek present tense. The term "begotten" is in the Greek perfect tense, indicative mood. Begotten is said here to be a past tense event, with continuing results. Believing is that result, being used here in the present tense.

Acts 16:30 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' 31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved...

Not sure why you would quote this text. There is nothing here that speaks to, or of, regeneration.

Rengeneration always follows faith in Christ. Faith in Christ always precedes regeneration.

Faith in Christ is simply the means by which the free gift of God is appropriated.

Your first comment above is nowhere to be found in the scriptures. It is simply an Arminian teaching that you've learned, or that you've read about, from one of your teachers bible studies.

There is no regeneration until a person first receives Christ as Savior - places his faith in Christ for salvation. The result of believing in Christ is that the Holy Spirit carries that persons faith to the point of salvation, making it effective for salvation. That is efficacious grace. A person is born again when the Holy Spirit who is the agent of regeneration creates a human spirit for that spiritually dead person in response to that persons faith in Christ.

Again, just more of your Arminian teaching. Nothing here, quoted in red, is even hinted at in the scriptures. Believe me, if you had one clear scripture that unequivocally supports this erroneous believe system of yours, you would post it.

The reason Titus 3:5 doesn't mention the role of faith in the process is because Paul's entire focus in the passage was on what God had done, not on human response. The New Testament is full of verses that say that you must believe in Christ to be saved - born again - regenerated. Using Acts 16:30-31 once again, 'Acts 16:30 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' 31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved...

Nothing here regarding faith proceeding regeneration, either. Not sure why these texts are being appealed to. There is nothing in these texts that will support your Arminian teachings.

Here is another one. John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Let's look at the verse which precedes John 3:16. John 3:15 'that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life.

The word "believes", for both verses, is being used in the Greek present tense. So is the word "have" with regards to eternal life. Both words are being used in the present tense. Again, nothing here in the text that supports the idea of faith proceeding eternal life or regeneration, in time.

However, if you do want a text that does say eternal life (passing from death to life) proceeds faith, in time, read Joh 5:24, here:

Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

The words "hearing", "believing" and "hath life", are all in the Greek present tense. The term "hath passed" is in the Greek perfect tense, indicative mood. Passing from death to life (regeneration) is a one time past tense event, never needing to be repeated, with continuing results. Those continuing results are "hearing", "believing" and "having life" in the present tense.

A person is born again - born of God - born from above - regenerated - given eternal life, at the point that he believes in Christ. Salvation is the work of God, but it is only appropriated through faith in Christ.

Again, that is not what Jesus taught in Joh 5:24, or what John tells us in 1 Joh 5:1.

The word "appropriated" is a somewhat nebulous term here. I suppose, in the sense that faith makes known and brings to us the knowledge of eternal life, I would agree with you. So yes, from that perspective, we see faith being the instrument that embraces salvation subjectively.

For example. We read in Rom 8:30, the following:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The words "called", "justified" and "glorified" are all in the Greek aorist tense, a summary action occurring in the past. Now, stop and think about that. These events were recorded over 2,000 years ago, as having already occurred. They are objective truths. You and I were not yet born my friend. Our faith played no role in these objective facts so stated in Rom 8:30. What faith does is subjectively receive these objective truths and in so doing makes these truths known to us.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Regeneration is nothing less than....

Nothing new here that I've not already responded to in previous posts. You'll need to find something better than the same old and tired Arminian rhetoric. The scriptures simply do not support what your comments say.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by mshipmate

Mr 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own *soul [psuche]?

*soul, psuche=life as in v. 35

Mr. 8:35 For whosoever will save his life [psuche] shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life [psuche] for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

Heb. 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, [psuche] both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the *veil;

Psuche as used here means the life of a man and occurs 58 time and is rendered either soul or life.

*veil katapetasma something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen (to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple


Eze 18:20 The soul [nephesh] that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

nephesh a breathing creature

MT 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: [psuche] but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here in v. 28 psuche is used of the life of a man which can be lost,destroyed, layed down, saved etc etc.

Here's a few examples:

Matt. 2: 20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life. [psuche]

Matt. 6:25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life,[psuche] what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Matt. 10:39 He that findeth his life [psuche] shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, [psuche] or to destroy it?

Matt. 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? [psuche] or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?[psuche]

!Thess. 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, [psuche] because ye were dear unto us.


Now let's apply some common sense to this verse:

REV 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls [psuche] of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

Here the word psuche is used of man as an individual [just as we speak of a ship going down with every soul or so many 'lives' being lost]

Psuche with this meaning is use 14 times in the Scriptures. [Acts 2:41,43; 3:23; 7:14; 27:37; Rom 2:9; 13:1; 1 Corin. 15:45; James 5:20; 1 Pet. 3:20; 2 Pet. 2:14; Rev. 6:9; 18:13; 20:4].

Now let's apply the common sense here. IF psuche here means a soul, as you are definding it, then how could 'it' have been beheaded? Only a flesh being; a living creature could have been beheaded.

Psuche is also used as a pronoun: we, you, mind, myself; as here:

"mind"

Acts 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds [psuche]evil affected against the brethren.

"us"


John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us [psuche] to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

"you"

1 Corin.12:15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; [psuche] though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.


So we see the words nephesh and psuche mean life, man, we, us, or myself.

The book of Revelation does not say that their souls were beheaded but that the souls of those who were beheaded were there in Heaven.

However you want to define soul, it does not change the fact that the soul and spirit of the redeemed go to Heaven. The soul is the spiritual mind [consciousness] and who a person identifies himself as. The human spirit empowers self identity to understand as a mere human in reasonings but that soul is dead to God.

The Spirit of God empowers the soul to live and identify [conscious understanding] with Gods ways. The human spirit is the power of an unredeemed self and the Holy Spirit is the Power of a believers new self. JN 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

MK 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart [spirit], and with all your soul [spiritual mind/understanding], and with all your mind [ability to reason in ordinary ways], and with all your strength [body]: this is the first commandment." The Spirit of God has the Power to transform all four aspects of a man. It is written, "If any man is in Christ Jesus, he is a new creation, behold all things become new."

HEB 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." The Word cuts asunder the human spirit and replaces it with His Spirit and the soul [spiritual mind and identity as to what spirit you are] is no longer associated with old self life but is one with God. New Wine can not be put into old bottles [mere human self mindedness] Jesus said but can only be put into New Bottles [God minded
soul] empowered by the Spirit of God.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by kids in america_

Mike we are born again in the sense that we are conceived. We are conceived in this life by the Spirit of ‘god’. So now we’re as it were in the womb. We’re developing and growing. We will not be “born again” until we are resurrected with a “imperishable, glorified, and powerful spiritual body" (see 1Co 15:42-44).

This will all take place when ‘Jesus’ comes, and then we enter the kingdom of ‘god’. We are then born out of the spirit in that kingdom.

No, we are not in the womb.

Being born again means that a person has been given eternal life. It occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

A person is positionally sanctified at the moment of faith in Christ. If the believer matures spiritually by means of learning and applying the word of God to his life, he becomes experientially sanctified. Ultimate sanctification occurs with the resurrection of the body.

Again, the believer is born again - regenerated by the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

Combining posts now are we.... I guess I should answer this one too.

Yes, the Greek perfect tense is used to indicate a past tense event and I'm not disputing that. However, there is nothing in Joh 3:8 that links regeneration as being the outcome of faith, as you've so state, in red, above. The text does not even hint at that idea. Nor should you.

Regeneration refers to being born again. Being given eternal life.

John 3:8 is part of the entire passage from John 3:1 to John 3:21. In John 3:7 Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. In John 3:15-16, Jesus told him how to be born again. John 3:15 'that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life. 16] 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The passage isn't going into the mechanics of regeneration other than to say that it is being born of the Spirit in verse 8. The passage in its entirety is simply stating that to be born again or regenerated you must believe in Christ.


The word 'regeneration' itself is found only twice in the Bible. It means 'born again'. Other terms used to express the same idea are 'born from above' 'born of the Spirit,' 'born of God.' They all refer to eternal salvation.

And again, Acts 16:30 '...Sirs, what must I do to be saved.' 31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved...''


The rest of your post need not be addressed. The above should be sufficient.