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Old 11-24-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I believe what the scriptures say, regardless of what anyone says otherwise, be it Calvin, Luther, the Pope, and yes even you...lol I have complete liberty in Christ to believe only what His Spirit tells me.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

You keep believing in your website teachers and I'll keep believing in Jesus and what the Holy Spirit tells me. How's that?

Happy Thanksgiving to all! It's time to uncork a few bottles of Cabernet (let it breath for awhile) and enjoy this wonderful day that Christ has made. Take care my friend.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Subjectively, yes, salvation is made manifest and experienced in time, through faith. However, Paul spoke of his own salvation objectively, and having been given that salvation in Christ prior to the foundation of the world. Have you been reading anything I've posted here?

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Not scriptural. And yes, I know your "common grace" theory. That's not scriptural either...lol. You seem to have plenty of doctrinal words, but no scripture to support it. Why is that?
The convicting work of the Holy Spirit as described in John 16:8-11 is a part of the common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
Effectual grace is scriptural, but the comments you've placed after those words, in red, are not scriptural. Those comments are very different (actually rather bizarre) considering what Paul tells us here:

1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
To the contrary. Faith is non-meritorious. In itself, it can do nothing to save you. The Holy Spirit takes that faith and makes if efficacious, so that it has its intended effect. Faith is simply the means by which the one who believes receives the offer of salvation.

Quote:
Of course they were unwilling. Jesus states the reason why this was so, ie: "BECAUSE", here:

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Not only "can" the Spirit be resisted by the natural man, but rather the natural man ALWAYS resists the Spirit, as Stephen said in the text you've provided, and as Paul tells us here:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
That passage does not say that the natural man always resists the Spirit. If the natural man always resisted the Spirit then no one would believe the gospel message which the Holy Spirit makes perspicacious through His common grace ministry.

The natural man left to his own devices could not come to God. But the natural man is NOT left to his own devices. God has revealed Himself in general revelation through His creation. He has specifically revealed Himself through the Gospel under the common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit who convicts the unbeliever of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment. The common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration. Regeneration is the result of responding to the common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit by placing your faith in Christ, at which point the Holy Spirit in His ministry of efficacious grace makes that faith effective for salvation.


Quote:
Again, your comments in red (above) are not scriptural. You'd do a lot better here if you simply posted scripture (using a literal translation of the bible) and left it at that. Your comments either contradict what the text says or completely obfuscates it's meaning.
This is what you are calling unscriptural ---> The one who has believed in Christ has eternal life because he was born again or regenerated at the very moment that he believed in Christ. Regeneration refers to a new birth, a spiritual rebirth by which means the one who has been born again has eternal life. Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...'

What does Acts 16:31 say? It says that as a result of believing in Christ, you are saved. It does NOT say that you will believe because you have been saved.

No one is born again prior to believing in Christ.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

No one is born again prior to believing in Christ.
Enoch, and Elijah were. They even were taken straight to God prior to the advent of Christ.

Easy believism makes one stillborn, not born again. Why do you continue the false doctrine?
Are you trying to fill a church?
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:45 PM
 
20,255 posts, read 15,607,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
If you read closely to what Mike says, he believes the Gospel is an invitation that requires a decision. And that's not what the Gospel is.

The Gospel is a proclamation of Good News concerning what Christ did. There is really no invitation or decision to be made concerning anything that Jesus did. You either believe God's testimony, or you do not.

Faith is not something that we hold in our hands, like a neutral poker chip if you will, in order to "make a decision" as to where we're going to place it.

Spiritual faith from God is not neutral, but rather is in Christ. That faith in Christ is something you either have from God or you do not have. Faith is not something that God gives people to make a decision about, nor is it something used by the natural man to decide when and where the Spirit will do He's good work (as in decisional regeneration).

Mike simply does not believe what the Gospel is. If he did, he would know it is not an invitation, but rather a heralding of Good News. And, that this Good News is received by those who are born of the Spirit.

To those who are not born of the Spirit, the Gospel comes in word only. To those born of the Spirit, the Gospel comes in power, in the Holy Spirit and with much assurance.

1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Do you see the difference here?
Here is the invitation of the gospel. John 7:37 '...''If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38] ''He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' ''

Here is the invitation of the gospel. Revelation 22:17 'And the Spirit and the bride say ''Come.'' And let the one who hears say, ''Come.'' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

Here is the invitation of the gospel. Isaiah 55:1 ''Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

Isaiah 55:3 ''Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen , that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, according to the faithful mercies shown to David'.

Jesus' offer to ''Come to Me and drink,'' is an offer of salvation. An invitation to receive the free gift of eternal life.


Here is a rejection of that offer. John 5:40 ''and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.''
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:01 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,480,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Here is the invitation of the gospel. John 7:37 '...''If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38] ''He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' ''

Here is the invitation of the gospel. Revelation 22:17 'And the Spirit and the bride say ''Come.'' And let the one who hears say, ''Come.'' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

Here is the invitation of the gospel. Isaiah 55:1 ''Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

Isaiah 55:3 ''Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen , that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, according to the faithful mercies shown to David'.

Jesus' offer to ''Come to Me and drink,'' is an offer of salvation. An invitation to receive the free gift of eternal life.


Here is a rejection of that offer. John 5:40 ''and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.''
Eternal life and salvation are not one and the same. Eternal life truly involves being born again, where one can lay his life down or take it up, it is where one can come and go as the wind and no one will know from where you come or where you go. Salvation is merely being salvaged after death.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:02 PM
 
20,255 posts, read 15,607,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Enoch, and Elijah were. They even were taken straight to God prior to the advent of Christ.

Easy believism makes one stillborn, not born again. Why do you continue the false doctrine?
Are you trying to fill a church?
Salvation is the same in every dispensation. Through believing in the Messiah. Those prior to His historical coming believed in the promise of His coming.

There is no such thing as easy believism. For the believer it is free believism because Jesus paid the price for him.

If you attempt to work your way to salvation, you are on your way to the lake of fire. Salvation is offered as a free gift only. If you attempt to work for your salvation than it becomes something that God owes you. And God owes no one anything. Romans 4:4 'Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5] 'But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,

I suggest that you research the difference between Positional Sanctification and Experiential Sanctification before making any more comments.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:12 PM
 
20,255 posts, read 15,607,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Eternal life and salvation are not one and the same. Eternal life truly involves being born again, where one can lay his life down or take it up, it is where one can come and go as the wind and no one will know from where you come or where you go. Salvation is merely being salvaged after death.
Eternal salvation and eternal life are the same thing. At the moment of salvation through faith alone, in Christ alone, a person is given eternal life. At salvation a person is no longer under the penalty of sin which is spiritual death - separation from God. He is given God's own eternal life.

As I said to you in the other post, you need to research the difference between Positional Sanctification and Experiential or Progressive Sanctification.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:15 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,480,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Salvation is the same in every dispensation. Through believing in the Messiah. Those prior to His historical coming believed in the promise of His coming.

There is no such thing as easy believism. For the believer it is free believism because Jesus paid the price for him.
We've covered that there are degrees of belief, even the devils believe.
True belief in someone or something, is shown by fruit. You can call it work or whatever, but it is by their fruits that ye shall know them.

Easy believism is alive and well in America and the world now for that matter.

Jesus will say to them, on that day.....BE GONE from Me, YE that worketh iniquity. Which is Sin, or the lack of inner quiet.. Which is also sin.


Quote:
If you attempt to work your way to salvation, you are on your way to the lake of fire. Salvation is offered as a free gift only. If you attempt to work for your salvation than it becomes something that God owes you. And God owes no one anything. Romans 4:4 'Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5] 'But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
Salvation is a gift of God and Christ, it is not the completion of one's faith, it surely is not Life eternal, in that death happens to those who rest in salvation, and there is surely no divine nature, or transfiguration on a path that rests in salvation. We are to run the race to the finishing of our faith, which is to overcome temptation and evil through walking as he walked.
There are degrees of glory in the Kingdom, Salvation is merely being salvaged, not a station in which one is in the presence of God and Christ.

Your lamp must be full to attend that feast.

Quote:
I suggest that you research the difference between Positional Sanctification and Experiential Sanctification before making any more comments.
Man's explanations for things he doesn't comprehend. If these things are to much for you to hear, then i won't waste the word.
Others may be open to hearing that the kingdom is not in salvation, but in power, through oneness with our Father and Christ.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:20 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,480,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Eternal salvation and eternal life are the same thing. At the moment of salvation through faith alone, in Christ alone, a person is given eternal life. At salvation a person is no longer under the penalty of sin which is spiritual death - separation from God. He is given God's own eternal life.

As I said to you in the other post, you need to research the difference between Positional Sanctification and Experiential or Progressive Sanctification.
Which is it? In Faith ALONE or Christ Alone?

You merely are parroting what some dime store preacher has told you.

If you live in sin, YOU die, it is the wages of sin.

If you are filled with God and the Holy Spirit, this is life, and death has no power over you.

The last enemy to be overcome is death.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:52 PM
 
20,255 posts, read 15,607,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
We've covered that there are degrees of belief, even the devils believe.
True belief in someone or something, is shown by fruit. You can call it work or whatever, but it is by their fruits that ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:16 is a warning concerning false profits. False prophets who come in sheeps clothing but are really ravenous wolfs. They can be know by their fruit.

Many people are eternally saved who you would never think that they were by the way they live. Many people who appear to be good and moral people will spend eternity in Hell.


Quote:
Easy believism is alive and well in America and the world now for that matter.

Jesus will say to them, on that day.....BE GONE from Me, YE that worketh iniquity. Which is Sin, or the lack of inner quiet.. Which is also sin.
Again, there is no such thing as easy believism. The ones mentioned in Matthew 7 to whom Jesus will say 'I never knew you, Depart from Me' are those who will claim to have cast out demons, prophesize, and perform miracles in the name of Jesus. But they did not trust in Him for salvation.

Jesus was speaking to Pharisees who were producing bad fruit even though they appeared to be good men, teaching spiritual truths about the Messiah, but not recognizing that the Messiah was standing right in front of them. Even if they were doing miracles, and prophesying, they had no personal relationship with Jesus. When they stand before Christ at the great white throne judgment, they will claim to have done things for Christ, but Jesus will say that He never knew them.


Quote:
Salvation is a gift of God and Christ, it is not the completion of one's faith, it surely is not Life eternal, in that death happens to those who rest in salvation, and there is surely no divine nature, or transfiguration on a path that rests in salvation. We are to run the race to the finishing of our faith, which is to overcome temptation and evil through walking as he walked.
There are degrees of glory in the Kingdom, Salvation is merely being salvaged, not a station in which one is in the presence of God and Christ.

Your lamp must be full to attend that feast.
The believer will spend eternity in the presence of God even if he never produces much or anything by way of 'good works.' Eternal life is based on faith alone in Christ alone. Eternal rewards are given based on spiritual production during the believers life on earth (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10).

Distinquish between eternal salvation which occurs at the moment of faith in Christ, and the spiritual life of the believer after salvation. They are two different things.

A person has eternal life the very moment he believes in Christ. The advancment to spiritual maturity takes time and is dependent upon the volitional decisions of the believer to learn and apply the word of God to his life.

1 John 5:1 'Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. ... 13] 'These things (1 John 5:2-12) I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.


Quote:
Man's explanations for things he doesn't comprehend. If these things are to much for you to hear, then i won't waste the word.
Others may be open to hearing that the kingdom is not in salvation, but in power, through oneness with our Father and Christ.
Everyone who has believed in Christ will be a part of the Kingdom. Not everyone will have the same status and blessings in the kingdom, but every believer will be in the kingdom. There is even now a shadow form of the kingdom of which every church-age believer is a part. The Physical Millennial kingdom will be set up when Christ returns to the earth at the end of the Tribulation.

Prior to the Millennial kingdom, at the moment of physical death, every believer goes immediately to heaven.

At the rapture of the Church, every believer that is alive on the earth will be taken up into heaven where he will then stand at the judgment seat of Christ to be evaluated for his works and rewarded for them.

I am trying to get you to realize that there is a difference between what is required for eternal salvation, and what is required to be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Eternal salvation is a done deal as of the moment of faith in Christ. Advancing to spiritual maturity is a matter of learning and applying the word of God to your life after salvation. Through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the believer is placed into union with Christ and is Positionally Sanctified. Through the process of spiritual growth by means of learning and applying the word of God to his life, the believer is Experientially Sanctified. And that is the difference between being positionally sanctified and experientially sanctified.

Now if you want to learn some of the details of the Biblical doctrine of Sanctification, you can simply click on the following study.

Lesson 13 - Sanctification
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