You are Born Again the Moment you believe in Christ (Messiah, prayer)
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I disagree. We are not born again the moment we first believe "about" Jesus as savior, the only way, etc.
We are "conceived" and then rebirth takes time for all but death-bed type of conversions. This is why bible also says for us to "work out" our salvation with fear and trembling, or words to that very effect.
Regeneration refers to being born again. Being given eternal life.
John 3:8 is part of the entire passage from John 3:1 to John 3:21. In John 3:7 Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. In John 3:15-16, Jesus told him how to be born again. John 3:15 'that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life. 16] 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
The passage isn't going into the mechanics of regeneration other than to say that it is being born of the Spirit in verse 8. The passage in its entirety is simply stating that to be born again or regenerated you must believe in Christ.
The word 'regeneration' itself is found only twice in the Bible. It means 'born again'. Other terms used to express the same idea are 'born from above' 'born of the Spirit,' 'born of God.' They all refer to eternal salvation.
And again, Acts 16:30 '...Sirs, what must I do to be saved.' 31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved...''
The rest of your post need not be addressed. The above should be sufficient.
Mike… In John 3, Jesus was speaking about being "born from above” not “born again”. The phrase “born again” in John 3 is a mistranslation. Also being "born from above” and being “born again” (in the Christian sense) are not one and the same.
I disagree. We are not born again the moment we first believe "about" Jesus as savior, the only way, etc.
We are "conceived" and then rebirth takes time for all but death-bed type of conversions. This is why bible also says for us to "work out" our salvation with fear and trembling, or words to that very effect.
Sunysee, Being born again occurs at the moment of faith in Christ. The process of spiritual growth after having been eternally saved is theologically called Experiential or Progressive Sanctification. Salvation and the spiritual life after salvation are two different things.
Positional Sanctification is immediate at the moment of salvation through faith in Christ when the Holy Spirit places the believer into union with Christ. This is the purpose of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Working out your salvation simply means to grow spiritually and refers to experiential sanctification.
Regeneration refers to being born again. Being given eternal life.
John 3:8 is part of the entire passage from John 3:1 to John 3:21. In John 3:7 Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. In John 3:15-16, Jesus told him how to be born again. John 3:15 'that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life. 16] 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Nowhere does Jesus tell anyone "how to be born again". In-fact Jesus tells us the exact opposite, that no one knows where or when the act of regeneration takes place, let alone telling the natural man (one who is spiritually dead) "how to" make it happen. This thread is becoming rather humorous now...
Here is what Jesus tells us:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Your doctrines are simply wrong. And Jesus here, in the text, tells you so.
Quote:
The passage isn't going into the mechanics of regeneration other than to say that it is being born of the Spirit in verse 8. The passage in its entirety is simply stating that to be born again or regenerated you must believe in Christ.
Actually, there is nothing within the dialog between Jesus and Nicodemus that tells us what you've said, high-lighted in red. Jesus tells us that the act of regeneration happens entirely by the will of the Spirit, apart from any human effort or any human knowledge thereof:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Quote:
The word 'regeneration' itself is found only twice in the Bible. It means 'born again'. Other terms used to express the same idea are 'born from above' 'born of the Spirit,' 'born of God.' They all refer to eternal salvation.
Speaking objectively so, yes, regeneration does include eternal life. However, the idea that this act of regeneration somehow embodies all of the "salvation" process is not scriptural, nor is this how scripture presents it to us. For example:
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Obviously, if salvation was fully realized and embodied through regeneration there would be nothing "nearer" to take place with respect to salvation.
Quote:
And again, Acts 16:30 '...Sirs, what must I do to be saved.' 31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved...''
Again, this particular text is not focused on the discussion of regeneration. The concept of regeneration is not being explored or taught here by Paul to the jailer.
Quote:
The rest of your post need not be addressed. The above should be sufficient.
Actually, all of your comments have been totally insufficient. You know, or you should know by now, that there is nothing here in the texts you've provided that will support your Arminian doctrines.
Mike… In John 3, Jesus was speaking about being "born from above†not “born againâ€. The phrase “born again†in John 3 is a mistranslation. Also being "born from above†and being “born again†(in the Christian sense) are not one and the same.
Kids, John 3:7 says [B]"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born (gennethenai) again (anothen).'[/b]
Then in John 3:8 Jesus speaks of being born of the Spirit.
Gegennemenos - from gennaó - 'has been born' of the Spirit.
Born again and born of the Spirit are saying the same thing. So is being 'born from above. The believer has been born again, of the Spirit, from above. They all refer to a spiritual birth.
Now in 1 Peter 1:23 'for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.'
For you have been born again is from the word 'Anagegenneminoi'- from 'anagennaó.'
To be born again is the same as to be born from above.
It's real simple to understand. One has eternal life because of being born again from above. Jesus told Nicodemmus that he had to be born again, born of the Spirit (John 3:7-8), and then in John 3:15-16 Jesus told him how to be born again, born of the Spirit. 'that whoever 'believes may in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.'
Now compare 1 John 5:1 with 1 John 5:13.
1 John 5:1 'Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.'
1 John 5:13 'These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.'
Those who are born of God have eternal life (1 John 5:1 with 1 John 5:13).
Those who are born again, born of the Spirit have eternal life (John 3:7,8 with John 3:15,16).
Now, for what may be the first time on this thread, I don't remember, I will provide a study on the doctrine of Regeneration, for whoever will simply bother to click and read. ---> Bible Doctrine Resource.com » Doctrine of Regeneration
Nowhere does Jesus tell anyone "how to be born again". In-fact Jesus tells us the exact opposite, that no one knows where or when the act of regeneration takes place, let alone telling the natural man (one who is spiritually dead) "how to" make it happen. This thread is becoming rather humorous now...
Here is what Jesus tells us:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Your doctrines are simply wrong. And Jesus here, in the text, tells you so.
Actually, there is nothing within the dialog between Jesus and Nicodemus that tells us what you've said, high-lighted in red. Jesus tells us that the act of regeneration happens entirely by the will of the Spirit, apart from any human effort or any human knowledge thereof:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Speaking objectively so, yes, regeneration does include eternal life. However, the idea that this act of regeneration somehow embodies all of the "salvation" process is not scriptural, nor is this how scripture presents it to us. For example:
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Obviously, if salvation was fully realized and embodied through regeneration there would be nothing "nearer" to take place with respect to salvation.
Again, this particular text is not focused on the discussion of regeneration. The concept of regeneration is not being explored or taught here by Paul to the jailer.
Actually, all of your comments have been totally insufficient. You know, or you should know by now, that there is nothing here in the texts you've provided that will support your Arminian doctrines.
Once again, in post #50 Jesus told Nicodemous in John 3:7 that he must be born again. Then in John 3:15 and 16, in the same conversation with Nicodemous, Jesus said that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. A person is born again and therefore has eternal life, through faith in Christ, at which point the Holy Spirit regenerates him.
Eternal salvation is entirely the work of God and is received by those who place their faith in Christ.
For those who are genuinely interested, here is a another study on regeneration.
Excerpt:
B. The Method Of Regeneration
1. A person becomes regenerated when he hears the gospel, repents, and by faith receives Jesus Christ as his personal Savior (John 1:12-13; Titus 3:5; James 1:18; Peter 1:23).
2. Regeneration is a literal birth into God's family where the believer actually becomes God's child (Romans 8:14-16; 1 John 3:1-2; 5:1; 1 Peter 1:3).
3. When a person receives Christ , his spirit, which was dead in Adam, is instantly reborn by the Holy Spirit (John 3:6). After this, he is no longer in Adam but "in Christ" (Romans 8:1-11).
4. This birth is as real as a person's physical birth from his parents (John 3:5-6).
5. It enables the believer to call upon God as his father, and upon the Lord Jesus Christ as his elder brother (Romans 8:15-29; Galatians 4:6; Hebrews 2:10-13).
6. It also makes the believer a "new creature." This is because he has been given another nature in addition to the evil one he was born with (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15).
7. This new nature is Jesus Christ's very own nature, thus it carries with it all of His moral attributes (Romans 6:8, 8:9; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 2:10, 4:24; Colossians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:4).
8. Since the new nature is Christ's nature, it is in every way contrary to the believer's fallen, Adamic nature which he still has (Romans Ch. 6-8; Galatians 5:16-26; Colossians 3:9-10).
9. Every Christian is to grow and become mature in his new nature and make no provision for the old (Romans 13:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15, 7:1; Galatians 5:16; 1 Peter 2:2; 2 Peter 3:18). More Than Forgiven
Once again, in post #50 Jesus told Nicodemous in John 3:7 that he must be born again.
Yes, however that is very different than saying "how to be born again", as you indicated previously. Here is what Jesus told Nicodemus:
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The Greek verb δει, translated as "must", is in the present tense, indicative mood. Being born again is a present condition, happening now. Not instructions for "how to be" born again sometime in the future.
"Ye must be" is a statement of fact and is quite different than saying "how to" do something. You simply do not understand what the text is saying. It's plainly obvious that your doctrines are not scriptural. I'm just surprised you keep going on here as you do.....
Quote:
Then in John 3:15 and 16, in the same conversation with Nicodemous, Jesus said that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. A person is born again and therefore has eternal life, through faith in Christ, at which point the Holy Spirit regenerates him.
Sorry, that is not what Jesus said either, as you've stated, in red. Jesus used the Greek verb πιστευων, translated as "is believing" in the Greek present tense, not future tense, "will have", as you erroneously indicated. Let's read it, here:
Joh 3:15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
You're not even able to quote the scriptures correctly, let alone give any credible exegesis concerning them. You're completely lost here, my friend. It's really best if you just call it a day, pack it up, move on and ask God to grant you repentance from your belief system.
Quote:
Eternal salvation is entirely the work of God and is received by those who place their faith in Christ.
Yes, it is completely the work of God apart from any human effort whatsoever, and yes it is received subjectively through faith in Christ. However, Jesus said that this "passing from death to life" occurs prior to the believing, here:
Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
Nowhere does Jesus tell anyone "how to be born again". In-fact Jesus tells us the exact opposite, that no one knows where or when the act of regeneration takes place, let alone telling the natural man (one who is spiritually dead) "how to" make it happen. This thread is becoming rather humorous now...
Here is what Jesus tells us:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Your doctrines are simply wrong. And Jesus here, in the text, tells you so.
Actually, there is nothing within the dialog between Jesus and Nicodemus that tells us what you've said, high-lighted in red. Jesus tells us that the act of regeneration happens entirely by the will of the Spirit, apart from any human effort or any human knowledge thereof:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Speaking objectively so, yes, regeneration does include eternal life. However, the idea that this act of regeneration somehow embodies all of the "salvation" process is not scriptural, nor is this how scripture presents it to us. For example:
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Obviously, if salvation was fully realized and embodied through regeneration there would be nothing "nearer" to take place with respect to salvation.
Again, this particular text is not focused on the discussion of regeneration. The concept of regeneration is not being explored or taught here by Paul to the jailer.
Actually, all of your comments have been totally insufficient. You know, or you should know by now, that there is nothing here in the texts you've provided that will support your Arminian doctrines.
Cut to the point. Just what are you? Born again, regenerated, born from above, saved, or what and how did it it happen for you?
Cut to the point. Just what are you? Born again, regenerated, born from above, saved, or what and how did it it happen for you?
Mike and I have not really got "to the point", yet...but getting close .
I was born of the Spirit in my youth. For myself, it happened just like Jesus explained it to Nicodemus. I was cursing God (and everyone else around me) one moment, and the next moment I had a complete change of mind (repentance) and I was calling on Jesus. The Gospel came to me just like Paul described it in 1 Th 1:5. I also saw (spiritually) Jesus standing in the Heavens, the day I was born of the Spirit. I had absolutely no religious upbringing or knowledge prior to that day.
I remember going to school, the following school day, standing up in class and stating that Jesus was the way, the truth and the life. Believe me, my teacher thought I was nuts, I lost all my friends by weeks end, and I really wasn't troubled by any of those events surrounding me.
God also gave me a very beautiful wife, with children to follow, soon there after. Just like Jesus said here:
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Anyway, that's what happened to me.
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