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Old 11-28-2011, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 230,504 times
Reputation: 58

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
So if you get angry with someone then go and get in a car accident with un repentant anger and die you will go to hell?

Give me a break.

Please don't cheapen what Christ did.

Please try read the Bible verses again, closely
The Peril of Falling Away

1Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits. 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
In a similar example to the one you gave: If your anger has caused you to do violence, grave bodily harm, to someone in a car accident, AND you are forever unrepentant for your actions (I did it, and would do it again!), it is YOU who cheapens what Christ did for us (put Him to shame). READ the scriptures again.

In your specific example you portray this as a "one off" anger/ accident AND killed yourself, and thus have no opportunity to demonstrate repentance in this life. Therefore, at the time of judgment Jesus will know your heart and so it is a moot point. Your example really does not fit the criteria for "fallen away"

The topic is not to engage is a debate about the severity of sin and scale unrepentence that constitutes "fallen away". The point is these verse clearly identify that those who are saved CAN fall away, and judgment awaits them. It identifies them as SAVED by the description given, and is also clearly says then FALLEN AWAY, and how it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them to REPENTANCE. The illustration obviously demonstrates that yielding of thistles and thorns, which is the metaphor for attributes of those fallen away, is deserving of judgment.

You are missing the point to think just sinning of any kind meets the threshold for "falling away"
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Are you serious Finn!!! You cannot be serious. You are so deceived...I cannot even bellieve how much you are. Simply unbelievable how you twist the word of God....in plain view!

Since you do not believe what is written, and falsely say it says something it does not, then Ezekiel 24 through 26, which COMPLETELY! and TOTALLY! refutes your false claims, then there is nothing more I can say.

Everyday a thought or circumstance comes my way to test me...to test where my heart is...and it comes from God. At those points, I HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE! and I choose God! over comitting the sin!..AT ANY GIVEN POINT FINN JARBER, I COULD CHOOSE TO DO THE WRONG THING...AND IF I DO...I AM DONE!

No, the answer (which I gave above) does NOT help me understand your point at all.

You are saying that one cannot lose their salvation, and I am telling you what God's word says, In Ezekiel, as well as MANY! other passages throughout the entire Bible!, that a person who faithfully serves God can make a BAD! WILLFULL! choice to sin, and lose their salvation!

If you believed the word of God, instead of TWISTING! it into a lie, you would see this.
I am serious, and I think you need to be careful with what you say. As a matter of fact, if you are right in your beliefs, it would be better to not say anything at all. You calling me a liar might have resulted in the loss of your salvation and in the nullification of all your good works.

You need to realize that Jesus means what he says and your beliefs and your interpreptions of the OT quotes contradict some 200 verses in the NT which clearly teach believers have eternal life. The Holy Spirit gives assurance of a person's salvation, but if you believe what you believe there is no such thing as an eternally saved person, or a person who can have assurance of their salvation. If you are right, then the entire NT is one big lie.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life


John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

Acts 13:38-39 "Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-28-2011 at 06:37 AM..
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
You certainly can!
Mark 3:29

"... but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin...
The sin in question was to accuse Jesus doing miracles with the powers of Satan, when He did them with power of Holy Spirit. You cannot repeat this sin today as Jesus is not here with us. The only unforgiveable sin you can commit today is die as an unbeliever. That will never be forgiven. Jesus WILL NOT take away the gift of salvation no matter what you do. Once you have it, you have it for eternity.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You may find this weird, but I have always took comfort in the fact my salvation is secure, while understanding that Jesus does indeed warn about becoming complacent.
Well, He did not warn that He would un-save you, if you stepped off the path. If you step off the path, you repent and get back on. Believers still sin, but they do not lose their salvation because of it. I do not know any believers who live in willful and deliberate sin. If they do, I would know they were never saved in the first place, and their fruit is proof of it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
Amen...

It is very common that people will mold the scripture to their beliefs without looking at the context. This thread is evident of that.

This is why so many are turned over to the evil one. Because of false teachers that tell of a different Christ that is the truth.

Thanks for staying true to Christ!
Indeed. Jesus said He gives us peace, but how can you have peace if you think Jesus will take away your salvation of you make a mistake. One poster earlier went as far as saying that Heb 6:6 means that if you make one slip, you are done for good, and even repentance will not save you again.

No. You can't be saved again, because you are already saved. If someone was saved again, it would have to mean that he was saved, then un-saved, and then saved again. It doesn't work that way because salvation was never taken back. There is no such thing as un-saving process.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,116,625 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

I heard someone claim that the above means that a saved person can have his name blotted out of the book of life and lose his salvation if they sin. That would imply two things:

1. A person can lose his/her salvation
2. Salvation is through works (sinless life)

Both are false.

Luke 10:20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

"He who overcomes" does not mean a sinless person, it simpleu refers to a saved person. Their names will never be blotted out of from the Lamb's Book Of Life.
So...your understanding of overcoming is simply to be saved????
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
So...your understanding of overcoming is simply to be saved????
That is where it starts. Salvation leads to the desire to do God's will. If you were saved and then died, then what did you overcome? Would that mean your name was blotted out?
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,233,863 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I am serious, and I think you need to be careful with what you say. As a matter of fact, if you are right in your beliefs, it would be better to not say anything at all.
I am right in my beliefs, and there us nothing in Scripture that says it is a sin to to boldly proclaim God's truth against the false teachings of a false prophet and/or teacher!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You calling me a liar might have resulted in the loss of your salvation and in the nullification of all your good works.
The truth is not in you if you state that a person who does not continue in keeping the commands of God can lose their salvation.

1 John 2:4 SPECIFICALLY! states: "The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You need to realize that Jesus means what he says...
YOU! need to realize that the word of God, IN IT'S ENTIRETY!!! means what it says!...
Quote:
Ezekiel 18:
24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

HE CHANGETH NOT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Again, this can only refer to an unsaved person who was righteous only in his own mind.[/quote]

Show me scripture...chapter and verse that proves this ^^^ outrageous statement of yours. I want to see it before my eyes Finn Jarber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
and your beliefs and your interpreptions of the OT quotes contradict some 200 verses in the NT which clearly teach believers have eternal life.
AND HIS WORD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF!!! SHOW ME, CHAPTER AND VERSE, SCRIPTURE THAT REFUTS EZEKIEL 18:24-26.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
The Holy Spirit gives assurance of a person's salvation, but if you believe what you believe there is no such thing as an eternally saver person, or a person who can have assurance of their salvation. If you are right, then the entire NT is one big lie.
Full assurance comes from an abiding faith in Christ Jesus and LIVING! His word in our lives...this full assurance can be lost if one begins to live contrary to the word of God! Read Hebrews 10:22...HERE'S SOME NEW TESTAMENT FOR YOU! "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water"

Show me, chapter and verse, NT Scripture that refutes Hebrews 10:22. I want to see them with my eyes.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,021 posts, read 7,056,459 times
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jdaelectro: I would encourage you to keep studying. We never reach a point where we know and understand everything in the Bible and our relationship with God. I've worked as a full time pastor for over 10 years, writting sermons for every Sunday. I've been to a top notch seminary, I've been a Christian for almost 59 years. I can read and translate Koine Greek. But I'm still learning, I'm still growing in my faith and my understanding. I hope you also keep in mind that none of us knows it all yet, and there is still things we need to learn.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,233,863 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by finn_jarber View Post
the sin in question was to accuse jesus doing miracles with the powers of satan, when he did them with power of holy spirit. You cannot repeat this sin today as jesus is not here with us. The only unforgiveable sin you can commit today is die as an unbeliever. That will never be forgiven. Jesus will not take away the gift of salvation no matter what you do. Once you have it, you have it for eternity.
Lie.
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