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Old 11-28-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,124,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That is where it starts. Salvation leads to the desire to do God's will. If you were saved and then died, then what did you overcome? Would that mean your name was blotted out?
OK...overcoming starts there but where does it end...what exactly do you believe you should be overcoming???
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,088 posts, read 7,096,342 times
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It occured to me I could give you a better response to your last post concerning someone who dies in an accident in the middle of a angry rant at their wife. It sounds like you are rejecting the idea that we are going from faith to unbelief to faith depending on our sins and repentance for those sins. I would reject that also, and that is not what the Bible indicates. If you read Romans chapter 7, and Paul's discussion of it, you find a very similar explanation, a believer struggling with his sinful flesh. That isn't at all what these texts are talking about. What these texts are talking about is that Christians, who are persistent in their unbelief, persistent in their love for money, or idolatry, or in their unrepentance, these people can and will lose their salvation if they continue on this path. Again, consider David, when the prophet accused Him of sin, he repented. Had he not repented, and persisted in it, God would not have forgiven him.

I don't know if you've thought the "once saved always saved" thing through, but it taken to its logical conclusion, it would mean that a Christian can go out and be a persistent adulterer, without ever asking for forgiveness and refusal to stop it, and its OK with God. There's nothing like that in the Bible.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:13 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
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One of the larger problem in a persons spiritual life is that they often find the irony shown right here in this thread. In one church or discussion, you hear the assurance of salvation, in anotheryou hear that it is not assured. Even the OSAS people have their out that if someone does this or that or the other thing, then they weren't saved in the first place. In many cases there is no true concensus among Christians on what it actually takes to have assurance of salvation in the first place.

When someone says, it takes this to be saved, another comes along and says no, it takes this. This demostrates that none of them know what they are talking about when it comes down to it. One says you believe a lie, the other says no you believe a lie, blah blah blah blah blah.

God assures salvation for everyone, you can question that if you like, but God is not the author of confusion, the ideas people have about what it takes to be saved is too confusing for anyone to be able to sort it all out. Certainly each one of you can say you have the truth, the other can say they have the truth.

What people don't actually see is that salvation is assured for everyone, that simply clears up the whole mess and God declares it.

What we also can be assured of is that how you live your life matters. Living up to anothers religious ideologies is irrelevant.

We can see the demonstration of reaping what we sow as we live life. We can see in scripture that Jesus , if he emphasized anything, was living righteous. That there will be consequenses. Those consequenses are not really that confusing if a person puts some thought into it. Those consequenses also will not contradict Gods assurance of salvation for everyone.

So you can all keep arguing with one another about who is going to fry hard, but your all missing the point in the first place.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,243,619 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life
Lets read ALL of 1 John 5...to know the truth as it is written, Moderator cut: rudely deleted .

1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death [which is UN-WILLFULL SIN - SINS OF IGNORANCE]!, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death [WHICH IS WILLFULL SIN!]: I do not say that he shall pray for it [...and WHY? will he will not say that he shall pray for those sins...? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE...NO MORE FORGIVENESS FOR WILLFUL SIN FOR THOSE WHO HAVE TASTED THE GOODNESS OF GOD AND RETURNED BACK TO THEIR SINFULL WAYS!].

17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death [WHICH IS UN-WILLFULL SINS!].

18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

19And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

21Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
There you go...read it!!!..."...whoever rejects the Son will NOT see life! "

It DOESN'T SAY, "If you once believed and received the Word of God (Jesus) and then rejected Him, you will still receive eternal life."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
...shall we delve a little further into John 5...

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
...there you go!...ONLY! those who believe (and not in words alone, but in whether or not they kept His commandments!) <<<THAT! is BELIEF!

[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
...there you go!...ONLY! those who believe (and not in words alone, but in whether or not they kept His commandments!) <<<THAT! is BELIEF!

[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
...there you go!...ONLY! those who believe (and not in words alone, but in whether or not they kept His commandments!) <<<THAT! is BELIEF!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
...there you go!...ONLY! those who believe (and not in words alone, but in whether or not they kept His commandments!) <<<THAT! is BELIEF!

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God..."



NO ONE CAN WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND THE FLESH AT THE SAME TIME!


There is not one verse that supports your false statements Finn Jarber! NOT ONE!

Last edited by june 7th; 11-29-2011 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,829,925 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, He did not warn that He would un-save you, if you stepped off the path. If you step off the path, you repent and get back on. Believers still sin, but they do not lose their salvation because of it. I do not know any believers who live in willful and deliberate sin. If they do, I would know they were never saved in the first place, and their fruit is proof of it.
1 Chronicles 28:9
“And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.”

This verse 1 Chronicles 28:9 sums it up. It is simply incorrect to state that someone was never saved in the first place if they lose their faith.
Solomon is proof of this.
No one can deny that Solomon in his early years was a believer, yet there is no indication Solomon remained a believer by the end of his life.

1 Chronicles 28:9 is quite clear (if let to speak for itself) that UR is a false doctrine as well as OSAS

Like I said.. it is impossible to abandon something if you never had it to begin with.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.



Challange your theory and word search "abandon" ... then tell me if one can abandon anything with never having it to begin with.

Last edited by twin.spin; 11-28-2011 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,051,435 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
One of the larger problem in a persons spiritual life is that they often find the irony shown right here in this thread. In one church or discussion, you hear the assurance of salvation, in anotheryou hear that it is not assured. Even the OSAS people have their out that if someone does this or that or the other thing, then they weren't saved in the first place. In many cases there is no true concensus among Christians on what it actually takes to have assurance of salvation in the first place.

When someone says, it takes this to be saved, another comes along and says no, it takes this. This demostrates that none of them know what they are talking about when it comes down to it. One says you believe a lie, the other says no you believe a lie, blah blah blah blah blah.

God assures salvation for everyone, you can question that if you like, but God is not the author of confusion, the ideas people have about what it takes to be saved is too confusing for anyone to be able to sort it all out. Certainly each one of you can say you have the truth, the other can say they have the truth.

What people don't actually see is that salvation is assured for everyone, that simply clears up the whole mess and God declares it.

What we also can be assured of is that how you live your life matters. Living up to anothers religious ideologies is irrelevant.

We can see the demonstration of reaping what we sow as we live life. We can see in scripture that Jesus , if he emphasized anything, was living righteous. That there will be consequenses. Those consequenses are not really that confusing if a person puts some thought into it. Those consequenses also will not contradict Gods assurance of salvation for everyone.

So you can all keep arguing with one another about who is going to fry hard, but your all missing the point in the first place.
Now this post is funny... and I don't mean that sarcastically !!
Here is my observation by what I mean what is funny......,
Here we have another individual coming into a thread like everyone else giving his truth about the truth the will of God and of other's and doing the same as everyone else saying it is not the truth and are missing the point.... isn't one doing the very thing that everyone else is doing.... ???

This forum is really getting to be such a comical place to read.....
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,243,619 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
1 Chronicles 28:9
“And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.”

This verse 1 Chronicles 28:9 sums it up. It is simply incorrect to state that someone was never saved in the first place if they lose their faith.
Solomon is proof that of this.
No one can deny that Solomon in his early years was a believer, yet there is no indication Solomon remained a believer by the end of his life.

1 Chronicles 28:9 is quite clear (if let to speak for itself) that UR is a false doctrine as well as OSAS

Like I said.. it is impossible to abandon something if you never had it to begin with.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.



Challange your theory and word search "abandon" ... then tell me if one can abandon anything with never having it to begin with.
Amen!
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,829,925 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
It amazes me how someone can take scripture and rip it to shreds. Please stop listening to your false teachers that preach a Christ that would let someone fall from His hands.

You are taking things out of context.

You said one sin right?

So you say you are without sin today?
Did you notice what sin was referenced.
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
God himself says some people will do just that ... they will abandon the faith.
What is the only thing that makes it possible to please God ... faith Hebrews 11:6

I would also challange your theory and word search "abandon" ... then tell me if one can abandon anything with never having it to begin with.
1 Chronicles 28:9
“And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.”

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Old 11-28-2011, 10:08 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Now this post is funny... and I don't mean that sarcastically !!
Here is my observation by what I mean what is funny......,
Here we have another individual coming into a thread like everyone else giving his truth about the truth the will of God and of other's and doing the same as everyone else saying it is not the truth and are missing the point.... isn't one doing the very thing that everyone else is doing.... ???

This forum is really getting to be such a comical place to read.....

That is the point. Glad you got it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,568 posts, read 31,963,402 times
Reputation: 9421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I am right in my beliefs, and there us nothing in Scripture that says it is a sin to to boldly proclaim God's truth against the false teachings of a false prophet and/or teacher!
So, I am a false prophet because you do not agree with my view? I could shoot back and call you a false prophet for now agreeing with me, but I decide to keep His command and NOT judge you.

Quote:
The truth is not in you if you state that a person who does not continue in keeping the commands of God can lose their salvation.
Actually I said a saved person desires to do God's will, which would mean there is no such thing as a saved person who continues to live in habitual and willful sin. If a person was never saved, he/she cannot lost what they never had. If the desire for willful sin is DEAD in a believer, then how coudl he/she lose salvation? It does not happen, and I don't know why you theaten people with such scenario.

Quote:
1 John 2:4 SPECIFICALLY! states: "The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
You might want to read that again before passing judgement next time.
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