Adam's Sin and Christ's Atonement (Christian, Lord, rejoice, interpretation)

[Jrhockney]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

For until the law, sin was in the world. Adam' sin wasn't the first sin. Sin was there before the commandment came. It was the first sin that was imputed with death and said curses that followed as the result.

Hi Sciotamicks. Interesting comment. Do you think maybe this wasn't Adams first sin and was this maybe more of a last straw? Its always disturbed me a bit the idea that God would make Adam first sin curse the world, the animals and the eternities of most of humanity rather than just kill him like he originally said he would or do what most parents would do for their childs first sin and give him a "time out." Adam may not have even been very old would have had the mentality of a child compared to God especially not having eaten from tree of knowledge yet. The doctrine of original as it is traditionally understood gets more and more logically troubling the more I think about it. I suppose it makes some sense as a part of God's total plan though, it just seems strange the way it is written.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

You sre saying we sin because we are condemned. That is simply not true. We sin because we choose to. When we sin we are condemned.

Katie

I thought you said that Jesus took away all sin. So how can we have any sin?

[trettep]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

For until the law, sin was in the world. Adam' sin wasn't the first sin. Sin was there before the commandment came. It was the first sin that was imputed with death and said curses that followed as the result.

But my question is which sin is the offence spoken of by which all were made sinners?

[MissKate12]

Jesus takes away sins when we obey the gospel. There is no forgiveness for those who don't obey.

Katie

[trettep]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

Jesus takes away sins when we obey the gospel. There is no forgiveness for those who don't obey.

Katie

Ok, I like where that it going. I think we agree here. So how about those that died between Adam and Moses (before the law). Were they sinners?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by trettep

I thought you said that Jesus took away all sin. So how can we have any sin?

I think what Katie meant was that Jesus atoned for all sin (i.e. the sins of all who would repent and believe in Him). I would assume that it would be accurate to include Adam within that number.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I think what Katie meant was that Jesus atoned for all sin (i.e. the sins of all who would repent and believe in Him). I would assume that it would be accurate to include Adam within that number.

So what about babies. They die, how are we going to deal with that issue? I mean if something else can kill us besides sin then where is Jesus addressing what that is?

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by trettep

So what about babies. They die, how are we going to deal with that issue?

Some things happen in the course of nature, existing in or formed by nature itself; it’s not because babies miss the mark?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by trettep

So what about babies. They die, how are we going to deal with that issue? I mean if something else can kill us besides sin then where is Jesus addressing what that is?

Here's how I understand it... When God told Adam not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil, He warned him of what the consequences for disobedience would be: "...In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. When Adam disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit, he was cast out of the Garden. He died spiritually at that moment, because he was separated from God for the first time. He would have continued to be separated from God forever were it not for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. He didn't die physically when he was cast out of the Garden, but he did immediately become subject to death. The time would come when he would die physically, and he would have remained dead forever were it not for Jesus' sacrifice.

So, I see two kinds of death and two kinds of atonement. There is physical death, which Adam brought into the world, and the physical rebirth (or resurrection), which Jesus Christ brought into the world. (For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.) This atonement is unconditional. It doesn't matter what we believe or how we choose to live our lives. All of us will someday be resurrected.

Then there is spiritual death, which Adam also brought into the world, and spiritual rebirth (or redemption), which Jesus Christ brought into the world. This part of the atonement is conditional, however. Jesus willingly assumed the guilt incurred by you and I and by everyone else who has and will acknowledge Him as their Savior, repents of their sins and makes a commitment to obey His commandments. This includes Adam. Jesus Christ forgave Adam for his sin (the one people refer to as the "original sin"). It's a debt that was paid for by His suffering, and one that is no longer owed. Consequently, none of us have to worry about being held accountable for something we didn't do.

We die because we are mortal. We are mortal because we are descendants of Adam. Death is something we cannot avoid; neither is a resurrection. We inherited Adam's mortal attributes, among which is our sinful nature, or the inclination towards sin. We did not inherit sin itself, because sin requires us to choose evil. We can avoid spiritual death, however, by choosing to repent when we fail to keep God's commandments, and by acknowledging Jesus Christ as our Savior. His Atonement makes it possible for us to ultimately be forgiven for our sins without having to first be punished for them.

I don't know if that makes sense or not. I'm only trying explain the way I see it, and if I haven't been able to do so by now, I'm pretty much out of ways to put it.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Good grief. I started the thread as a debate. Obviously I expected a variety of positions. A number of people agree with you; a number of people agree with me. This is the same situation as in any debate.

You keep posting this particular verse over and over again. Why? I saw it the first, second, and third times, and I simply interpret it differently than you do. Do you mean to say you actually interpret this literally? How many babies do you know who start telling lies as soon as they are born?

The reason is very simple why I post it over and over ....... because it so happens that it's the truth.

Is it amazing ... I actually say what I mean when I claim that I believe what God revealed in the Bible is the truth.

Imagine that ... God who knows and searches every heart, he reveals that the wicked are that way soon as they are born........... and you chose not to believe it.