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Old 12-11-2011, 09:48 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,483,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Unfortunately, when a person wields a two-edged sword, they often miss the whole point.

"The truth is found in his love for all humanity."
Is there any doubt that He loves us?

What effect is His love for us, if we don't reciprocate? Is this what you are saying?
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,235,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Just FYI.. I'm not a Christian nor a Jew so I am just reading the bible as I would any other book. In context. It is not rocket science. Whether you say one willfully sins or not, the bible was really written as letters to specific people who actually read the letters.

In my world there is not willful sin nor unwillfull/accidental sin because you either hit the mark or miss it. Missing it is actually practice in hitting the mark. All roads lead to God. It's which one you take that determines how hard a life you have.

The bible says to love one another. If you do that you can't sin. IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Well, stay in your world. I'll remain in His Truth.

Good Day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Unfortunately, when a person wields a two-edged sword, they often miss the whole point.

"The truth is found in his love for all humanity."
Unfortunately, when a person partially quotes a reply, leaving out some of it, they often mislead others as to the truth of the matter.

When katjonjj says,"I'm not a Christian nor a Jew so I am just reading the bible as I would any other book. In context. It is not rocket science. Whether you say one willfully sins or not, the bible was really written as letters to specific people who actually read the letters.

In my world there is not willful sin nor unwillfull/accidental sin because you either hit the mark or miss it. Missing it is actually practice in hitting the mark. All roads lead to God.
The bible says to love one another. If you do that you can't sin. IMO."

I answered the way I did because sadly, she is of the world...sadly, she is a non-believer. I told her to stay there...(if that's what she so chooses to do). Her choice...there are consequences for Missing The Mark.

I am a believer, I believe God's word, all of it...and I'll stay there, in truth...under the shadow of His Almighty Wings. My choice....on target.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 12-11-2011 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Is there any doubt that He loves us?

What effect is His love for us, if we don't reciprocate? Is this what you are saying?
We reciprocate by paying it forward not back. What kind of steward would we be if we don't allow gods love for us to flow to others?
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: US
26,262 posts, read 13,925,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Epiphany to you through association, or deflection from the teaching of Oneness.

Help me out here. Are you saying it is a sound doctrine to you, or depending on what the Pentacostals teach (which i have no idea), are you saying that it must be wrong?
Oneness Pentacostals do not believe in the Trinity for one...
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: US
26,262 posts, read 13,925,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Verna, you throw the words wilful sin around all the time as if you know/understand what wilful sin is. But it's obvious by the way you speak of it you don't know/understand what the writer of Heberws meant when he used the words.

This passage, BTW is the only place the word wilful connected with sin is used. Don't you find that a bit strange considering how you keep saying ppl that sin wilfully are doomed?

Heb. 10:
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully [hekousios]after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Before I remind you [I say remind for another poster on here has told you this same thing already{sorry, don't remember who the poster is}] that the passage above is not speaking of ppl just sinning any SIN.

It speaks of ppl who have accepted Christ's sacrifce and left behind the 'old life' and then forsook it all, to go back to their old ways. It speaks of ppl who have forsaken Judaism and accepted Christ and then went back to their old belief system [thus putting Christ to open shame].

So unless you and I and all the ppl you're trying to warn on here about wilful sin are "Jews" who once embraced Him and who've then left Christ behind, you are preaching in vain.

It's the same thing as spoken of here:

Heb. 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and *put him to an open shame.

* put Him to open shame: paradeigmatizo. Only here and in Matt. 1:19 [where the texts read degmatizo] and in Col. 2:15. The warning again is if, after accepting Christ the Messiah as Lord, they go back to Judaism, they cut themselves off. [see Gal. 5:4]

Of coures even though the warning is for apostates who go back to Judaism, it remains a solemn warning to all who profess to 'believe.'

So, again, the only ppl that are sinning wilfully are Jewish ppl who once accept Christ and then refuse Him.

And BTW the word wilful is the same as willingly as used here:

1 Pet.5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; [hekousios]not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

And here:

Phm14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.[hekousios]
Amen Brother...It took me a long time to understand that...For they use the example of what happened in the wilderness to the Jews who fled Egypt...Hawyaw said because of their unbelief they shall not enter My Rest...Why would he reference this unless it was an example of what would be the same end of those who are showing no Faith or Belief in what Hawyaw has stated...
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: US
26,262 posts, read 13,925,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
Where does it state that this is a sin of ignorance?...I think I know where you get your knowlwdge from and it is not all from scripture...
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Without Love, everything counts as nothing. Glad you are on target.

Thanks for explaining.
Anytime! I am glad we are in agreement as to the target! That's the bottom line isn't it? As long as the right target is in focus we really can't stray too far no matter what labels we assign to ourselves and others.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: US
26,262 posts, read 13,925,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Thanks katjonjj. Verna would save herself [and those who have to read her long posts ] a lot of time and trouble if she'd just stop and think and apply some common sense and realize who the book of Hebrew was written to!! Ah Hebrews as the name says. And then she goes on to say the words there for Hebrew ppl applies to all believers and when I correct her she says IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION!!

Does that mean we shouldn't read it and learn from the lessons in it. No.

Just as ppl forget Paul wrote certain, and different things to individual churches he was addressing and ppl assume ALL of it applies to all of us.

Excellent example. "YOUR woman should keep silent..." Written to the church at Cornith regarding certain woman; not to ALL woman. See chapter 11 where Paul says woman are to prophecy.
I agree...This is Vernas problem...But I do adore the way she desires to keep Hawyaw's commandments...As I desire to in my inner most being...However, I hope that she does not believe that this will earn her her Salvation...Because that is what Hebrews is speaking of...
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: US
26,262 posts, read 13,925,706 times
Reputation: 1592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Unfortunately, when a person partially quotes a reply, leaving out some of it, they often mislead others as to the truth of the matter.

When katjonjj says,"I'm not a Christian nor a Jew so I am just reading the bible as I would any other book. In context. It is not rocket science. Whether you say one willfully sins or not, the bible was really written as letters to specific people who actually read the letters.

In my world there is not willful sin nor unwillfull/accidental sin because you either hit the mark or miss it. Missing it is actually practice in hitting the mark. All roads lead to God.
The bible says to love one another. If you do that you can't sin. IMO."

I answered the way I did because sadly, she is of the world...sadly, she is a non-believer. I told her to stay there...(if that's what she so chooses to do). Her choice...there are consequences for Missing The Mark.

I am a believer, I believe God's word, all of it...and I'll stay there, in truth...under the shadow of His Almighty Wings. My choice....on target.
It is not your choice, Verna...It is His choice...
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:14 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,044,847 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I was a Christian more years of my life than not and I see both sides very clearly. It is my opinion that I am sharing with you. If verna judges that I am "of the world" then that is her opinion. My opinion is that Christianity is the guy who is given treasure to hold yet squanders it missing the mark completely.

The mark I am shooting at is Love. If my target is Love I can't go wrong and neither can you. God is Love.

Verna wasn't stating an opinion about unbelievers being "of the world". (You yourself say you are not a believer/Christian). It is a fact of God's. Believers are "in the world" but are not "of the world". Unbelievers are "of the world".

God is love, but He also wants us to believe in and on, and love His Son, Jesus Christ, who was crucified, died, and rose again to pay the penalty for our sins. Love means nothing if we do not have Jesus.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord--a curse be on him.
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