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Old 12-12-2011, 09:55 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,484,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Many believe in Christ, but they only believe in their mind. They believe that there is a God, and they believe that Jesus was a good man. They might find the wisdom of the Bible helpful and even affirm the Christian moral code. But their belief is limited only to intellectual affirmation. James 2:19 tells us, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble!" Obviously thereís more to faith than simple intellectual assent. We must not only believe in our mind, but we must also believe in our heart. Allow Godís Spirit to speak to your inner self, to touch your soul, to warm your heart, to touch your emotions, to fill your life.

With the Heart We Believe
What would a person like that be like to be around?

Would they be more on the straight and narrow as far as their actions and character?
Believing with the heart has what visual result?
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
"...Would they be more on the straight and narrow as far as their actions and character?
Believing with the heart has what visual result?
Believing with the heart expresses itself by the very words that come from the mouth connected to that heart.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:11 AM
 
Location: US
26,288 posts, read 13,939,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Believing with the heart expresses itself by the very words that come from the mouth connected to that heart.
It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles the body, but what comes out of the mouth that defiles the body...
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:02 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,044,564 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Many believe in Christ, but they only believe in their mind. They believe that there is a God, and they believe that Jesus was a good man. They might find the wisdom of the Bible helpful and even affirm the Christian moral code. But their belief is limited only to intellectual affirmation. James 2:19 tells us, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble!" Obviously there’s more to faith than simple intellectual assent. We must not only believe in our mind, but we must also believe in our heart. Allow God’s Spirit to speak to your inner self, to touch your soul, to warm your heart, to touch your emotions, to fill your life.

With the Heart We Believe
Good article, Can'tWait2Leave !!

It is quite obvious there is much of the head knowledge in this forum hanging out, rather then heart knowledge !!
Amen, true faith is of the heart.... anyone can know God, but faith takes it to the 'heart' of the matter, rather then staying in the head.... just like this little snippet from the article explains...

"The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming.

Have you ever done something and immediately afterward said to yourself, "I knew better than to do or say that"? Or have you ever been discussing a point with someone and then suddenly you realize the discussion has turned into an argument, and you think, "I should stop this now before it gets nasty," but you continue arguing anyway? There are a lot of times when we know what we should be doing, but we don’t do it. That’s because we understand it intellectually, but we don’t truly believe it with our heart.


Which I call missing the mark of God.... and in this missing God will keep one on that path (convicted) until they come to the place of resting and no longer wrestling with God over a disobedient disposition if they are a genuine believer.... then that area of their life will be acknowledged, repented of and completely surrendered.... they can truly see the ways of their doing and hate it, getting fed up with doing whatever disposition God is point out in them in their own will, and realizing it is time too rest in God's will....
....As for head knowledge I have seen many times in this forum, it may come under the conviction, unless the heart has become so callous, hardened toward the things of God and that head knowledge it will continue no matter what because there is no emotion, conviction of feeling bad in what they are saying or doing.... !!

Head knowledge eventually comes to the place where it begins showing the true heart..... insulting, bearing false witness, name calling, belittling other's, mean spirited, critical of other's, constantly trying to point out the fault in other's and so forth, the list goes on and on.... as we know this character talks about God's love, yet, never displays it, it can not....

As one knows that has heart knowledge will eventually come under the conviction that the guilt of knowing between what is good (God's will) and not doing it, heart knowledge God’s word is always near. They are willing to hear it, receive it, and allow it to enter ones heart. They then turn away (repent) from that disposition that is not pleasing unto God.... Then you could say, that one is no longer missing the mark of God in their walk !! They are the workmanship of God in the progress of sanctification, heading home spotless and blameless to the Father !!

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 12-13-2011 at 05:11 AM..
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Verna, you throw the words wilful sin around all the time as if you know/understand what wilful sin is. But it's obvious by the way you speak of it you don't know/understand what the writer of Heberws meant when he used the words.

Excuse me mshipmate, but you are wrong. I do understand what willfull sin is. I am pleased to see that it concerns you though. God bless you.

It doesn't matter how many "times" the word "willfull" is written in Scripture, one time is sufficient...but there are more.

DID YOU KNOW - The Word of God is written to, and to be understood only by, His children ?

BY the Holy Spirit, through the father's of old and the prophets...all the "we's"..."you's"..."our's"..."us's" spoken of by them are those who "KNOW GOD", and the only one's who KNOW GOD...the only one's GOD KNOWS are those who...have OVERCOME their fleshly desires...and no longer willfully sin.

1 John 2:13 I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father

************************************************** ****

* Willfull sin is sin you commit with malice of forethought.

forethought - (a.) Thought of, or planned, beforehand; aforethought; prepense; hence, deliberate.

forethought - (n.) Deliberation, consideration,or planning beforehand. 2. Preparation or thought for the future; anticipation.

make provision for - (n.) That which is provided or prepared; that which is brought together or arranged in advance; measures taken beforehand; preparation.

self-willed - Romans 2:8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.


Romans 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not *provision* for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

Job 29:14 I put on righteousness as my clothing; justice was my robe and my turban.

************************************************** ***

* Willfull sin is sin done presumptiously.

Psalms 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from *presumptuous* sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

************************************************** ***

* Willfull Sin is the transgression of the law (otherwise known as "the great transgression" ).

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Numbers 15:30 "'But anyone who sins *defiantly*, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people.

Psalm 18:23 I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin.

Psalm 18:32 It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.

Psalm 119:133 Direct my footsteps according to your word; let no sin rule over me.

Hosea 8:5 Throw out your calf-idol, O Samaria! My anger burns against them. How long will they be *incapable* of purity?

************************************************** ***

* The law is the Ten Commandments of God.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his *covenant*, which *he commanded you to perform*, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

************************************************** ***

* Therefore if you willfully, knowingly break any one of those commandments, you are a wicked, willfull sinner.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

************************************************** ***

* Willfull Sin is an act of someone who does not walk in the Spirit of Christ, but in the flesh.

Galatians 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

************************************************** ***

* Willfull Sin is an act that a repentant, born-again, born of God, child of the Living God does not commit...that is an oxymoron...

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

************************************************** ***

* One cannot call the LORD, LORD, while committing willfull sin...that too is an oxymoron. To call the LORD, LORD, means you acknowledge Him as your KING, and you are within His Kingdom, under His rule, and you obey Him...and He takes care of you. To be a member of His Kingdom, you MUST! be a repentant, born-again, CHANGED!, free from willfull sin, born of God, child of God...

Galatians 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Ephesians 4:24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
This passage, BTW is the only place the word wilful connected with sin is used. Don't you find that a bit strange considering how you keep saying ppl that sin wilfully are doomed?

Heb. 10:
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully [hekousios]after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

mshipmate, Hebrews 10:24-27 is a perfect example of what God expects of those who have repented of their sins, changed from the old man into the new man, born of God...born-again, child of God. >>>>>>>>After having received the experimental knowledge of the gospel truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins<<<<<<<<...If you haven't received this truth, and live it!, then this passage means nothing to you...it isn't speaking to you...you are a willfull sinner, and until you come to this place of being totally committed and submitted to God, you are not born of God, and He does not know you...yet. But once you do repent with godly sorrow, and a contrite heart, and He shares with you the gift of the baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ, and you turn back to your sin like a dog turns back to eat his vomit...you are finished....Thus saith the Lord God Almighty...It is written!...see Hebrew 10:24-27.

This is why you and the others have heard me say so many times that the false teachings of Modern Day Christianity (for all the past generations, until this day, even on until the coming of our King), are just that - FALSE!

Until one is truly born again, they will continue to commit willfull sin.

So, they are NOT born again when they repeat a few words after the pastor or "whoever" and walk away fom the alter (if there was/is one)...

...They are saved if they asked Jesus, with a pure heart, to come into their lives and take over. Saved and Salvation are two different things altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Before I remind you [I say remind for another poster on here has told you this same thing already{sorry, don't remember who the poster is}] that the passage above is not speaking of ppl just sinning any SIN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate

It speaks of ppl who have accepted Christ's sacrifce and left behind the 'old life' and then forsook it all, to go back to their old ways.

Amen...

mshipmate, Hebrews 10:24-27 is a perfect example of what God expects of those who have repented of their sins, changed from the old man into the new man, born of God...born-again, child of God. >>>>>>>>After having received the experimental knowledge of the gospel truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins<<<<<<<<...If you haven't received this truth, and live it!, then this passage means nothing to you...it isn't speaking to you...you are a willfull sinner, and until you come to this place of being totally committed and submitted to God, you are not born of God, and He does not know you...yet. But once you do repent with godly sorrow, and a contrite heart, and He shares with you the gift of the baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ, and you turn back to your sin like a dog turns back to eat his vomit...you are finished....Thus saith the Lord God Almighty...It is written!...see Hebrew 10:24-27.

This is why you and the others have heard me say so many times that the false teachings of Modern Day Christianity (for all the past generations, until this day, even on until the coming of our King), are just that - FALSE!

Until one is truly born again, they will continue to commit willfull sin.

So, they are NOT born again when they repeat a few words after the pastor or "whoever" and walk away fom the alter (if there was/is one)...

...They are saved if they asked Jesus, with a pure heart, to come into their lives and take over. Saved and Salvation are two different things altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
It speaks of ppl who have forsaken Judaism<<<YOUR OPINION! mshipmate...and accepted Christ and then went back to their old belief system [thus putting Christ to open shame].


BOLDED GREEN BY VERNA.

Hebrews 10:26 means - For when we - Any of us Christians. Sin wilfully - By total apostasy from God, termed drawing back, Heb 10:38 (10:38 Now the just - The justified person. Shall live - In God's favour, a spiritual and holy life. By faith - As long as he retains that gift of God. But if he draw back - If he make shipwreck of his faith My soul hath no pleasure in him - That is, I abhor him; I cast him off. Hab 2:3). >>>>>>>>After having received the experimental knowledge of the gospel truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins<<<<<<<< - None but that which we obstinately reject.

Hebrews 10:27 means - He that presumptuously transgresses the law of Moses dies without mercy - Without any delay or mitigation of his punishment.

************************************************** ******
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
So unless you and I and all the ppl you're trying to warn on here about wilful sin are "Jews" who once embraced Him and who've then left Christ behind, you are preaching in vain.


Ahhh but you err mshipmate in your understanding of Scripture

Who is the "Wild Olive Branch" ? that gets grafted into the "Olive Tree" ?


Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and *thou*, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

11:17 Thou - O gentile. Being a wild olive tree - Had the graft been nobler than the stock, yet its dependance on it for life and nourishment would leave it no room to boast against it. How much less, when, contrary to what is practised among men, the wild olive tree is engrafted on the good!
commentary by Wesley.


Romans 11:24 For if *thou* wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

11:24 means, Contrary to nature - For according to nature, we graft the fruitful branch into the wild stock; but here the wild branch is grafted into the fruitful stock.

...*thou*...is Gentiles who believe and walk in the will of the Father...the BORN OF GOD! They are a PART OF THE FAMILY OF GOD - CALLED ISRAEL - WE ARE "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL" .

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Romans 2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;


Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
It's the same thing as spoken of here

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
:

Heb. 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and *put him to an open shame.

* put Him to open shame: paradeigmatizo. Only here and in Matt. 1:19 [where the texts read degmatizo] and in Col. 2:15. The warning again is if, after accepting Christ the Messiah as Lord, they go back to Judaism<<YOUR OPINION! mshipmate..., they cut themselves off. [see Gal. 5:4]

BOLDED GREEN BY VERNA.

************************************************** *****
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Of coures even though the warning is for apostates who go back to Judaism, it remains a solemn warning to all who profess to 'believe.'

BOLDED BLACK BY VERNA.
A - M - E - N ! ! ! IT >>>REMAINS!!!<<< A WARNING TO ALL WHO PROFESS TO BELIEVE ! ! !


Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
So, again, the only ppl that are sinning wilfully are Jewish ppl who once accept Christ and then refuse Him.


Almost got it ! ...the only people that are sinning willfully who will not be forgiven again for turning back to willfull sin are ALL who have received the Knowledge od Truth in Christ Jesus...which is this: One who is born of God cannot continue to commit willfull sin and still receive eternal life. Until you are one of these, you are a willfull sinner, in need of a Savior! You are NOT born again...and you are not born of God...you still willfully sin, and have not repented of them yet.

They do not teach you this in "church" .


Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna.


...and then there is sin that can be forgiven, that does not lead to death, called "sins of ignorance."

1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

************************************************
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
...and accepted Christ and then went back to their old belief system [thus putting Christ to open shame]


Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
No, I'm sorry Verna, but these passages meaning ppl going back to Judaism is not just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate

I can show you 3 sources that agree with me on this:

1.) Companion Bible Kregel Publishers

page 1838

Footnote on v. 26:

The sin here is deliberate turning back to Judaish. Cp. 6:4-6

2.) Vincent's Word Studies
We sin willfully (ἑκουσίως ἁμαρτανόντων ἡμῶν)

Ἑκουσίως willfully, only here and 1 Peter 5:2. Comp. Plm 1:14, κατ' ἑκούσιον of free will. See lxx, Numbers 15:3. The willful sin is the abandonment of Christianity for Judaism.

The knowledge (ἐπίγνωσιν)

Only here in Hebrews. Very common in Paul. For the word, and the phrase knowledge of the truth, see on 1


3.) Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
26. Compare on this and following verses, Heb 6:4, &c. There the warning was that if there be not diligence in progressing, a falling off will take place, and apostasy may ensue: here it is, that if there be lukewarmness in Christian communion, apostasy may ensue.

if we sin-Greek present participle: if we be found sinning, that is, not isolated acts, but a state of sin [Alford]. A violation not only of the law, but of the whole economy of the New Testament (Heb 10:28, 29).

wilfully-presumptuously, Greek "willingly." After receiving "full knowledge (so the Greek, compare 1Ti 2:4) of the truth," by having been "enlightened," and by having "tasted" a certain measure even of grace of "the Holy Ghost" (the Spirit of truth, Joh 14:17; and "the Spirit of grace," Heb 10:29): to fall away (as "sin" here means, Heb 3:12, 17; compare Heb 6:6) and apostatize (Heb 3:12) to Judaism or infidelity, is not a sin of ignorance, or error ("out of the way," the result) of infirmity, but a deliberate sinning against the Spirit (Heb 10:29; Heb 5:2): such sinning, where a consciousness of Gospel obligations not only was, but is present: a sinning presumptuously and preseveringly against Christ's redemption for us, and the Spirit of grace in us. "He only who stands high can fall low. A lively reference in the soul to what is good is necessary in order to be thoroughly wicked; hence, man can be more reprobate than the beasts, and the apostate
(1)

HEBREWS 10:


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

10:26 For when we - Any of us Christians. Sin wilfully - By total apostasy from God, termed drawing back, Heb 10:38. After having received the experimental knowledge of the gospel truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins - None but that which we obstinately reject.

*******

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

10:28 He that, in capital cases, despised (presumptuously transgressed) the law of Moses died without mercy - Without any delay or mitigation of his punishment.

*******

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment is he worthy, who - By wilful, total apostasy. It does not appear that this passage refers to any other sin. Hath, as it were, trodden underfoot the Son of God - A lawgiver far more honourable than Moses. And counted the blood wherewith the better covenant was established, an unholy, a common, worthless thing. By which he hath been sanctified - Therefore Christ died for him also, and he was at least justified once. And done despite to the Spirit of grace - By rejecting all his motions.
Commentary by Wesley

****************************

(2)

HEBREWS 10:26

For if we sin wilfully - If we deliberately, for fear of persecution or from any other motive, renounce the profession of the Gospel and the Author of that Gospel, after having received the knowledge of the truth so as to be convinced that Jesus is the promised Messiah, and that he had sprinkled our hearts from an evil conscience; for such there remaineth no sacrifice for sins; for as the Jewish sacrifices are abolished, as appears by the declaration of God himself in the fortieth Psalm, and Jesus being now the only sacrifice which God will accept, those who reject him have none other; therefore their case must be utterly without remedy. This is the meaning of the apostle, and the case is that of a deliberate apostate - one who has utterly rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement, and renounced the whole Gospel system. It has nothing to do with backsliders in our common use of that term. A man may be overtaken in a fault, or he may deliberately go into sin, and yet neither renounce the Gospel, nor deny the Lord that bought him. His case is dreary and dangerous, but it is not hopeless; no case is hopeless but that of the deliberate apostate, who rejects the whole Gospel system, after having been saved by grace, or convinced of the truth of the Gospel. To him there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin; for there was but the One, Jesus, and this he has utterly rejected.
Commentary by Clark.

***************************

(3)

HEBREWS 10:26


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth. Deliberately trample under foot Christ's will; apostasize from the faith in life. There remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. We have, in that case, rejected Christ, the only sacrifice for sin.
People's New Testament


As I stated before, and will repeat again, "YOUR opinion mshipmate"...you have the same beliefs of those who have not received the knowledge of the truth in Christ Jesus...which is this:

One who is born of God CAN NOT continue to commit willfull sin and still receive eternal life.

Wesley, Clark, People's New Testament are but a few of the many who have received the Knowledge of the truth in Christ Jesus...who believe in keeping the commandments of God...and if you apostisize...turn away from your faith, after having received the indwelling Spirit of God...you are done.


God Bless you,
Verna.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:11 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,872,983 times
Reputation: 3724
We must be born again to be saved

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Born-again is a spiritual conversion and act of God.

John 3:6-8

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Being born-again in the Holy Spirit is being born-again into Jesus Christ

Colossians 2:9-10

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Abiding in the Holy Spirit is abiding in Jesus Christ/the vine(God) which is the source of fruitful works

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


To abide in Messiah/vine, we must die (empty of self/pride being the root) being led by the spirit in fear of the Lord in humility.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


This is what Paul's talking about by being dead to sin.

It's about what works God does through us. We can not justify ourselves before the throne of almighty God in any way. Turning our heart from our old rebellious self to God in his messiah is true biblical repentence.

It's all about the heart trusting in what he's done and his promises. Our works are filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). We aren't justfied by our works because they are of the flesh. Anything of the flesh will be burned because it is under the curse. Only the spirit survives. God's works through us by abiding in the vine/Jesus Christ/Holy spirit is what will not burn at the Judgment seat of Christ. That means a lot of the stifeful debates on here look to be put to shame on that day and burned.

Things to think about:

Is God's plan of redemption dependent upon anything we can do?

If we were saved by how faithful we were, would we have something to boast about?

If we were justified by the cross + what we could do, wouldn't God have to share his glory with another?

How does he feel about sharing his glory with another?

Is their warnings about adding to God's grace?


It's all about what God has done. All works of the "flesh" will burn because it is cursed. Only works done by God in the Holy Spirit/Vine/Jesus Christ will bring forth fruit. He is the potter, and we are the clay. It's what he does through us. To be filled with him, we must be empty of self.

Galatians 2

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Dead in vain? That should send a shill up the spine of everyone that professes Christ as their savior. Does our righteousness come by what we can do (or not do) or by what Jesus did on Calvary and in the resurrection?

Paul makes it clear the Law condemns not saves. Only one kept the law, and he is the vine we need to abide in the Messiah.

Every day we sin. Did we covet today? What about our Pride? (<<scary one as we read this board). I'm pretty bad with it too at times, but it is destructive to works of the spirit. We can not justify ourselves before the throne of Almighty God. God wants our hearts not our hypocritical fleshly works.

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


God want's our hearts by trusting in him in his program for redemption giving glory to who he sent the Messiah Jesus. We need to hide in what he's done with him/the holy spirit as our source of strength and trust.

Paul talks about dying to self so God can work through us. Pride is the root of all sin. Spiritual Self-Righteous pride is also sin and very deceptive and dangerous. Jesus railed the Scribes and Pharisees for this. He called them Whited Sepulchures inside full of dead men's bones. God gets all the glory.

What happens to the professing Christian that willfully lives in sin then? Part of the Holy Spirit's job is to convict us of sin transforming the heart equipping us to be a living witness of messiah. If a believer has not repented (visible evidence of value change and transformation), there is a great concern of false conversion (ie not being sealed by the Holy Spirit) by true biblical repentance. Believers are to help a proclaiming brother in the spirit of meekness, gentleness, and love. If we are saved by how faithful we are, then that's a recipe for disaster looking down upon the brethren thinking one is self-righteous. It's clear there is no respect of persons with God. We are all sinners and fall short of his glory. That's why we need to abide in Messiah. We are rewarded for how faithful we were by overcoming. Not all will be equal in the Kingdom of God.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Why did God save us?

Ephesians 2:6-10

King James Version (KJV)

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



Behavior is very important. God hates sin. Every motive will be judged. God loves his Children though. He will judge righteously. Not all saved will be equal in the Kingdom of God. We are saved by faith not how faithful/successful we are. All glory goes to God for saving us in his Messiah. Will God cast a true believer into Gehenna for falling back into bondage of certain sins?

It is the quadrillion dollar question that has caused debates for centuries. Are we trusting in what we can do or are we trusting in God? < more important question. It's all about the heart. We are told to preach repentance and righteousness. We are saved by God's grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

It's all about being led by the spirit of God.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Dying to self (pride of self/life) serving others Glorifying God's works through us being a living witness for Jesus Messiah with a spirit of meekness and fear of the Lord.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


Are we saved by how much fruit we bring forth?

Galatians 5:21-23

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Legalism tends to create a heart of stone toward life and others. What God wants is for us to allow his spirit to abide in us so he can work through us in love.

The most important thing for Christians to watch is Pride. God hates our pride, and it hinders letting God work through us. We all need to say a prayer to the Lord to help us humble ourselves to see who we really are.

The Law shows us that we need a redeemer and that redeemer is Jesus. We cling to him and what he's done. Just like the woman falling to grab his cloak. We can't do it. It's all about what he's done to save us.

I had a lot of trouble accepting this early on because being raised Catholic I had more of an Arminian, law keeping mindset that they say is necessary for Salvation( Purgatory heresy). Jesus has set me free of the bondage of the Law. It is the good news of the gospel!

Romans 6

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.



All that have the seal of the Holy Spirit are saved. Only they themselves and God know that. The only way to be free from sin is by the power of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we under bondage enslaved to the power of Sin.

Evidence for salvation is the presence of God's Holy Spirit in which we are sealed until the day of redemption. We can thus rest in what he's done, abiding in the vine/Jesus/Holy Spirit producing fruits of the spirit living as a living witness for Messiah Jesus experiencing true peace on earth as his spirit liberates us from the bondage of sin giving us peace in life. This sinful nature is still with us though every time pride starts showing it's ugly head again quenching the spirit of God producing works of the flesh.

God doesn't want us to live in daily fear questioning our salvation every time we slip. He wants us to walk with confidence in the Lord producing fruits of the spirit leading others to the glory of what Christ has done to save us.

It's the good news of the gospel! The Law was fulfilled in Christ. We are under the Law of Christ which is love. He knows we are wretched sinners in need of a savior, and he has mercy on all those that love him humbling themselves in his majesty.

We just have to be careful about adding to God's completed work on the cross. Repentance is turning away from our rebellious old self toward God in his Messiah being led by his spirit.

Last edited by Mikelee81; 12-13-2011 at 09:28 AM..
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