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Old 12-04-2011, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
It sure is!


Ummmmmm...no......except maybe in a situation like, if a big 'ol buck was walking somewhere behing the target...?...and it was hunting season...?
So when the word refers to archery and an archer would never deliberately miss the mark then can't we say that sin as a bible definition cannot be deliberate?

If someone deliberately sins aren't they simply shooting at the wrong target? Or practicing to learn how to perfect the shot? Why such absurdity in condemnation of sinners? I don't see missing the mark (sinning) as ever applying to an informed deliberate act. It is in ignorance that sin occurs. IMO.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
MISSING THE MARK?

When the question of sin comes up Christian teachers are quick to point out that sin has to do with "missing the mark".

The Greek word Sin hamartia (G264) is derived from the root word hamartanō (G266) which historically was an archers term that means to "miss the mark" . (See definitons below):

With that in mind, Modern Christianity in an attempt to trivialize willful sin often says something like this:

"Therefore to sin merely means to miss the mark; which seems to be a small thing since nobody hits the mark every time - right? After all nobody is perfect."

To understand the true meaning it must be understood that the root word meant much more than just missing the bulls eye from time to time. It means to miss the mark and so not share in the prize.

For example: Think of a King gathering an army of archers and he had them tested to see if they could hit a target with their bow an arrow. Those who missed the mark were disqualified.

That is the sense of the Greek word "hamartanō" The archer did not get more chances - it was miss and out. The word denotes failure with consequences.

In the Biblical sense the word "sin" which is derived from "hamartanō" refers to those who miss the mark by breaking God's commandments - that was how John used it in context concerning willful sin.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth SIN transgresseth also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

Those who sin ignorantly have missed the mark God has established in the ten commandments. They can be forgiven.

Those who commit sin (miss the mark) willfuly, are not children of God.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Definitions:
G266 hamartia sin - offence, sin (-ful). -From G264;

(G264 hamartanō properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize),
Good stuff Verna, thanks for posting that.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,816,000 times
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Eventually all sin will be destroyed and no one will miss mark when God becomes all in all. Ignorant sin and willful sin will no more exist when He abolishes all rule power and authority and subdues all to Himself. (1 Cor. 15) He will be in the all that belong to Him, the all for whom Jesus Christ died which includes all mankind. God bless.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:24 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,482,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
If you are an archer, deliberately missing the mark is absurd...

Verna, can you explain in what situation an archer would ever try to miss a target?
A good archer practice until it's perfect.

A bad one, doesn't and ends up dead in battle.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
If you are an archer, deliberately missing the mark is absurd...

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
It sure is!

Originally Posted by katjonjj
Verna, can you explain in what situation an archer would ever try to miss a target?

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Ummmmmm...no......except maybe in a situation like, if a big 'ol buck was walking somewhere behing the target...?...and it was hunting season...?



Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So when the word refers to archery and an archer would never deliberately miss the mark then can't we say that sin as a bible definition cannot be deliberate?
Yes, and that would be called sins of ignorance...or...un-willfull sin...these are sins that can be forgiven once you are a repentant, born again, born of God, child of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
If someone deliberately sins aren't they simply shooting at the wrong target? Or practicing to learn how to perfect the shot?
Yes, everyone, after having SINCERELY asked of Jesus to come into their heart, and they begin their "process" of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling (which means they are going through making wrong decisions and comitting willfull sin and that they are not yet born-again or born of God...repentant and changed into a "new man"), are going to experience tests and trials to strenghthen them spiritually and to teach them what sin is...as to not commit them anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Why such absurdity in condemnation of sinners?
It is the WORD of God that condemns the heart...like a double-edged sword, it cuts through the heart. Once you are born of God, living in His will, to walk righteously, there is therefore no condemnation to them who love God (keep His commandments), and are called according to His purpose...His Word no longer condemns their heart...because they are at peace with Him and His requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
I don't see missing the mark (sinning) as ever applying to an informed deliberate act. It is in ignorance that sin occurs. IMO.
Then you do not believe the word of God katjonjj, your opinion means nothing...for He says:

Ps 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression."

Numbers 115:30 "'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people.


...and what is the "great transgression"...?...breaking the laws of God...

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Good stuff Verna, thanks for posting that.
You're very welcome trettep.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
If you are an archer, deliberately missing the mark is absurd...

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
It sure is!

Originally Posted by katjonjj
Verna, can you explain in what situation an archer would ever try to miss a target?

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Ummmmmm...no......except maybe in a situation like, if a big 'ol buck was walking somewhere behing the target...?...and it was hunting season...?




Yes, and that would be called sins of ignorance...or...un-willfull sin...these are sins that can be forgiven once you are a repentant, born again, born of God, child of God.


Yes, everyone, after having SINCERELY asked of Jesus to come into their heart, and they begin their "process" of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling (which means they are going through making wrong decisions and comitting willfull sin and that they are not yet born-again or born of God...repentant and changed into a "new man"), are going to experience tests and trials to strenghthen them spiritually and to teach them what sin is...as to not commit them anymore.


It is the WORD of God that condemns the heart...like a double-edged sword, it cuts through the heart. Once you are born of God, living in His will, to walk righteously, there is therefore no condemnation to them who love God (keep His commandments), and are called according to His purpose...His Word no longer condemns their heart...because they are at peace with Him and His requirements.


Then you do not believe the word of God katjonjj, your opinion means nothing...for He says:

Ps 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression."

Numbers 115:30 "'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people.


...and what is the "great transgression"...?...breaking the laws of God...

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Tell us, if you would.. What laws are we talking about that a non-Jew would be subject to?
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Tell us, if you would.. What laws are we talking about that a non-Jew would be subject to?
You say, "non-Jew"...Those who keep God's laws and live for him in righteousness...born of God...are called, "Spiritual Israel" (grafted in)...

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;..."

Start with the Ten Commandments, also called the Book of The Covenant, written by the finger of God.

After that has been understood and established within a life, then the Lord will expand the knowledge of the born of God, child of God. I am still learning and growing in the Lord, and these are the things that He opens up to the heart who lives for Him...it takes faith and time to grow spiritually...there are ordanances and statutes as well that are good.

"Thou didst come down upon Mt. Sinai, and speak with them from heaven AND GIVE THEM RIGHT ORDINANCES AND TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS." (NEH 9:13)

THE ORIGINAL COVENANT WITH ISRAEL WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WITH NOTHING ADDED!

1ST COVENANT MADE WITH ISRAEL AT MT. SINAI:

Deut 4:13And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, [even] TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:22
These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: AND HE ADDED NO MORE. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Note: This covenant (The ten commandments) *DID NOT* include the book of the Mosaic law for it had not yet been given.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 12-04-2011 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: I needed to add the info about "Spiritual Israel"
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
You say, "non-Jew"...Those who keep God's laws and live for him in righteousness...born of God...are called, "Spiritual Israel" (grafted in)...

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;..."

Start with the Ten Commandments, also called the Book of The Covenant, written by the finger of God.

After that has been understood and established within a life, then the Lord will expand the knowledge of the born of God, child of God. I am still learning and growing in the Lord, and these are the things that He opens up to the heart who lives for Him...it takes faith and time to grow spiritually...there are ordanances and statutes as well that are good.

"Thou didst come down upon Mt. Sinai, and speak with them from heaven AND GIVE THEM RIGHT ORDINANCES AND TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS." (NEH 9:13)

THE ORIGINAL COVENANT WITH ISRAEL WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WITH NOTHING ADDED!

1ST COVENANT MADE WITH ISRAEL AT MT. SINAI:

Deut 4:13And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, [even] TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:22
These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: AND HE ADDED NO MORE. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Note: This covenant (The ten commandments) *DID NOT* include the book of the Mosaic law for it had not yet been given.
You said it twice... Covenant MADE WITH ISREAL. I am not Israeli.. Are you? If not, I ask why you follow laws intended for others. Furthermore why do you hold others to those laws?

Missing the mark is right... You should be aiming at loving your neighbor. IMO.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You said it twice... Covenant MADE WITH ISREAL. I am not Israeli.. Are you?
Katjonjj said: "You said it twice... Covenant MADE WITH ISRAEL. I am not Israeli..."

You are correct, you are not Israel, you are not even "Spiritual Israel' katjonjj, for you do not keep the commandments of God, therefore you are not born-again, or born of God.

katjonjj said: "Are you?"

Yes, I am recognized by God as being "Spiritual Israel", a part of the family of God...grafted in.

katjonjj said: " If not, I ask why you follow laws intended for others...."

I am Spiritual Israel as stated above.

Katjonjj said: "Furthermore why do you hold others to those laws?"

I am mandated to share with the world what God has given to me, with the hope that some...even one precious soul, will have the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and turn from their wicked ways to follow Jesus and receive eternal life. I want you with me...God wants you with Him. If I do not warn the wicked of their wickedness, then their blood is upon my hands. If I do warn them, and they do not take heed, they will die in their iniquities, but I will not have their blood upon my hands.

katjonjj said: "Missing the mark is right... You should be aiming at loving your neighbor. IMO."

Again, your opinion means nothing katjonjj, I am not missing the mark...I am right on target.

I do aim at loving my neighbor...what greater love is there than to sacrifice myself to God and live my life loving my neighbor by warning them of their wickedness...telling them the truth, whether or not they like it or not is not the issue.

Love is honesty...Love is patient...Love is kind...Love is gentleness...I have all those fruits of the Spirit, and I live them...and it shows...people know by the way I live my llife.

My literal neighbors, who live all around me here, all know how much I love the LORD, and we talk over the fences...a lot of times. when they see me out in the yard, they take the opportunity to come over to get a hug...an uplifting word...tell me their troubles...looking for encouragement or just to talk...and I give it to them...time. I do aim at loving my neighbors...those I know personally, and those here on the Christian Forum. I am who I am to all.
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