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Old 12-06-2011, 03:01 AM
 
Location: US
24,689 posts, read 12,945,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
If you are an archer, deliberately missing the mark is absurd...

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
It sure is!

Originally Posted by katjonjj
Verna, can you explain in what situation an archer would ever try to miss a target?

Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Ummmmmm...no......except maybe in a situation like, if a big 'ol buck was walking somewhere behing the target...?...and it was hunting season...?



Yes, and that would be called sins of ignorance...or...un-willfull sin...these are sins that can be forgiven once you are a repentant, born again, born of God, child of God.


Yes, everyone, after having SINCERELY asked of Jesus to come into their heart, and they begin their "process" of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling (which means they are going through making wrong decisions and comitting willfull sin and that they are not yet born-again or born of God...repentant and changed into a "new man"), are going to experience tests and trials to strenghthen them spiritually and to teach them what sin is...as to not commit them anymore.


It is the WORD of God that condemns the heart...like a double-edged sword, it cuts through the heart. Once you are born of God, living in His will, to walk righteously, there is therefore no condemnation to them who love God (keep His commandments), and are called according to His purpose...His Word no longer condemns their heart...because they are at peace with Him and His requirements.


Then you do not believe the word of God katjonjj, your opinion means nothing...for He says:

Ps 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression."

Numbers 115:30 "'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people.


...and what is the "great transgression"...?...breaking the laws of God...

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Paul says we are no longer under the Law but under Grace...The Law speaks only to those that are still under the Law...
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:07 AM
 
Location: US
24,689 posts, read 12,945,361 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Note: This covenant (The ten commandments) *DID NOT* include the book of the Mosaic law for it had not yet been given.
Why don't you ask a Jew what the Law is...You might be surprised by the answer...And What are the differences between the Old Covenant and The New covenant?...Is the Old Covenant still in force or is the New Covenant in force?...
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,087,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Why don't you ask a Jew what the Law is...You might be surprised by the answer
I might . So why don't you tell us what a Jew would say the Law is ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
...And What are the differences between the Old Covenant and The New covenant?
Glad you asked

1. A new sacrifice.
• OLD - Sacrifice of animals
• NEW - Sacrifice of the Messiah

2. A new method of administration.
• OLD - through the Priest
• NEW - through Holy Spirit

3. A new place to write the law of God.
• OLD - Tablets of stone
• NEW - Tablets of the heart

BOTH THE OLD COVENANT AND NEW COVENANT WERE MADE WITH ISRAEL

Jer 31: (Speaking of the New Covenant made with Israel)

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant……But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 10:15-16 (Speaking of the New Covenant made with Believers)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

THE ORIGINAL COVENANT WITH ISRAEL WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS – WITH NOTHING ADDED!

1ST COVENANT MADE WITH ISRAEL AT MT. SINAI:

Deut 4:13And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, [even] TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:22
These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: AND HE ADDED NO MORE. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Note: This covenant (The ten commandments) *DID NOT* include the book of the Mosaic law for it had not yet been given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
...Is the Old Covenant still in force or is the New Covenant in force?...
The Old Covenant, The Ten Commandments, written upon two tablets of stone is now the New Covenant, The Ten Commandments, written upon the heart, and it is still in force today.

Amen...and Amen.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 853,918 times
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Galatians 5:3-5
King James Version (KJV)
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

In my opinion, whether or not you try to separate the Ten Commandments from all the other laws Moses was given at Mt. Sinai, the above verse emphasizes it is by FAITH that righteousness comes.

Discipline will be administered for transgressions, surely, but it will be JUST. Will not the God of all the earth do justly? How is it just to torture someone with no end? What purpose does it serve? Could it be a warning to the righteous? Hardly, what need is there for that when all the faithful have a new heart? God does not stay angry forever, BUT his mercy does endure forever, for as long it is needed.

May God shine His face upon you today.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:58 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,405,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
modeerF...Freedom?...
5691 drahciR....Richard 1965!
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,429 posts, read 8,144,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...because you're telling me your opinion katjonjj...where do I go with that...? Try to change your opinion which you hold so highly in regards? I genuinely try to share with you truth, but the reality of it is, you see it the way you see it, and in that you say things like this to me:

"...it's too bad you think this way. Loving your neighbor isn't that complicated. In fact when you talk about how loving you are when you condemn others... You reveal your heart. It's sad that such a well meaning soul has been so corrupted by hate and fear. So very sad."

...and you expect me to continue on in what you term as a "lovely conversation"...?...maybe to you, but I just don't see it that way.
I didn't post the verse references because they are fairly common phrases and I figured you'd know them.

So the main ideas I took from the bible, my opinion is that your behavior and preaching about "missing the mark" don't match up with what I see in the bible.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Maybe I should ask it this way...
No matter how you ask me something katjonjj, the meaning is still the same.
What meaning is that? What's the real difference between me and you? I'm simply curious as to why you would see practicing (missing the mark) as bad.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katkonjj
Condemning others and pointing out their sin according to your standards is opposite of the quality of love which is forgiveness. Love doesnt keep record of wrongs.
Just another one of your opinions again.
Proverbs 17:9 He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.

1 Peter 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Corinthians 13:5 It [love] is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

My opinion came from comparing those verses above in context with what you are saying now about missing the mark.

Perhaps you can clarify why you think sins of others should be pointed out to them when the bible says to cover those sins with love and forgiveness.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
How, then, can you say condemnation is Verna's to give...
see..? YOU say I give condemnation. How is it that I give condemnation? I've NEVER said that it is mine to give, YOU said that, NOT ME. I said it is the WORD of God that condemns the wicked heart...like a double-edged sword, I only weild this Powerful Sword in my hands! and in the other hand is this Solid , unpenetratable Shield of Faith!...and upon my head is the Helmet of Salvation!...and on my feet I wear the peace of the truth of the Gospel!...here, read what GOD! says His word does to the wicked heart...

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..
Where does that verse state it's your job to point out the sins of another? See those 4 I pasted above?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
...and furthermore, that it is loving?
Yes! It is! \o/ according to God it is!.
You are reading the verses and picking one over the other Hebrews doesn't say hit them with the sword! Yet you seem to take it that way. The verse in proverbs I pasted above, and in fact all of them, contradict that kind of behavior.

Maybe you are simply confused as to what "missing the mark" truly is.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
You seem to put more emphasis on the missing of the mark than the mark itself. God is love. Loving is the practice of hitting the mark (God)! Without missing the mark we can hardly fine tune our aim!

Shouldn't the mark be most important? I say Let god judge the wicked, because who am I to judge? If I love them anyway without judgment then I am not missing the mark. Love IS the mark.

Vengeance is mine says the Lord.

So why do you seem to emphasize the "missing the mark," as if to miss is a bad thing then call that love... Love holds no record of wrongs.
Do you hold record of wrongs?
It is not about deliberately missing - it is about if you miss there is a consequence. "Miss so as to not share in the prize."

and no, I do not hold records of wrongs...and God will remember every wrong done on judgement day...every single one..
Verna, if god holds record of wrongs...every single one, then he is not love. The bible is full of "god is love" statements. You seem to discount that... Why?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,087,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I didn't post the verse references because they are fairly common phrases and I figured you'd know them.

So the main ideas I took from the bible, my opinion is that your behavior and preaching about "missing the mark" don't match up with what I see in the bible.



What meaning is that? What's the real difference between me and you? I'm simply curious as to why you would see practicing (missing the mark) as bad.



Proverbs 17:9 He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.

1 Peter 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Corinthians 13:5 It [love] is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

My opinion came from comparing those verses above in context with what you are saying now about missing the mark.

Perhaps you can clarify why you think sins of others should be pointed out to them when the bible says to cover those sins with love and forgiveness.



Where does that verse state it's your job to point out the sins of another? See those 4 I pasted above?



You are reading the verses and picking one over the other Hebrews doesn't say hit them with the sword! Yet you seem to take it that way. The verse in proverbs I pasted above, and in fact all of them, contradict that kind of behavior.

Maybe you are simply confused as to what "missing the mark" truly is.


Verna, if god holds record of wrongs...every single one, then he is not love. The bible is full of "god is love" statements. You seem to discount that... Why?
...and you expect me to continue on in what you term as a "lovely conversation"...?...maybe to you, but I just don't see it that way.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,429 posts, read 8,144,328 times
Reputation: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...and you expect me to continue on in what you term as a "lovely conversation"...?...maybe to you, but I just don't see it that way.
It's a discussion Verna, we have different views and that's okay... But if you are unable or unwilling to answer my questions just say so....
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,087,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It's a discussion Verna, we have different views and that's okay... But if you are unable or unwilling to answer my questions just say so....

...and you expect me to continue on in what you term as a "lovely conversation"...?...maybe to you, but I just don't see it that way.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:00 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,405,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Being a good shot does nothing to make you any less of a target, and in fact will make you the desired target for you're the greatest threat.
Didn't say just a good shot. I said a good Archer... One that takes his position into account, and knows his enemy. Plus! a good shot.
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