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Old 12-11-2011, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,936 posts, read 8,514,397 times
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I see many folk here who don't like how God is portrayed in the OT. Practically all of Christian denominations, all 30,000 of them view the OT as true. The Jews (of which I am/was one) see the OT as true.

Jesus referenced the OT.

IMO not liking how God acted in the OT is your choice, but this is God. God who created all. As for me, I submit to God, regardless. I don't have to agree with how God choses to do stuff.

We are all given the choice to follow God. My decision is yes and I am not about to tell God how to run things.

So I ask those who think otherwise to explain how they think they can tell God how He should act and yet feel they can be right with the One who created all.

I am curious how this sort of theology works.

 
Old 12-11-2011, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I see many folk here who don't like how God is portrayed in the OT. Practically all of Christian denominations, all 30,000 of them view the OT as true. The Jews (of which I am/was one) see the OT as true.

Jesus referenced the OT.

IMO not liking how God acted in the OT is your choice, but this is God. God who created all. As for me, I submit to God, regardless. I don't have to agree with how God choses to do stuff.

We are all given the choice to follow God. My decision is yes and I am not about to tell God how to run things.

So I ask those who think otherwise to explain how they think they can tell God how He should act and yet feel they can be right with the One who created all.

I am curious how this sort of theology works.
Good questions! I believe it comes down to the credibility of the writers. Anyone who sacrificed animals to god to make it rain hardly seems like an authority on who god is. IMO. they blamed everything on god. No crops... Wrath of god. No rain... Wrath of god. Disease... Wrath of god... Etc.

You know? So taking the OT as more than historical is an error. Again IMO.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,578,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Good questions! I believe it comes down to the credibility of the writers. Anyone who sacrificed animals to god to make it rain hardly seems like an authority on who god is. IMO. they blamed everything on god. No crops... Wrath of god. No rain... Wrath of god. Disease... Wrath of god... Etc.

You know? So taking the OT as more than historical is an error. Again IMO.
Yep, and they also have recorded having been told by God to do all manner of stuff that is in direct violation of the 10 commandments. So I'm supposed to believe that Jehovah was telling his people to break the commandments, go out and slaughter everyone - etc. Sorry, I don't buy it. There is obviously something seriously weird going on in that OT. As a believer in Jesus Christ, I must reject the opposing image of God presented in the OT.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Yep, and they also have recorded having been told by God to do all manner of stuff that is in direct violation of the 10 commandments. So I'm supposed to believe that Jehovah was telling his people to break the commandments, go out and slaughter everyone - etc. Sorry, I don't buy it. There is obviously something seriously weird going on in that OT. As a believer in Jesus Christ, I must reject the opposing image of God presented in the OT.
Exactly.. The OT writers were obviously working with a skewed image of god. Perhaps why Jesus separated himself by saying HE is the image of god, not the OT descriptions of him.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 08:57 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,046,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I see many folk here who don't like how God is portrayed in the OT. Practically all of Christian denominations, all 30,000 of them view the OT as true. The Jews (of which I am/was one) see the OT as true.

Jesus referenced the OT.

IMO not liking how God acted in the OT is your choice, but this is God. God who created all. As for me, I submit to God, regardless. I don't have to agree with how God choses to do stuff.

We are all given the choice to follow God. My decision is yes and I am not about to tell God how to run things.

So I ask those who think otherwise to explain how they think they can tell God how He should act and yet feel they can be right with the One who created all.

I am curious how this sort of theology works.

Good thread.

I'm curious to see their explanations.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
[mod[ orphaned [/mod]
Yes, the OT is cited whenever someone is trying to justify something the appears unjust. It's sad that Christianity has reverted to what looks more and more like sacrificial Judaism. Where god is a monster that requires appeasement.

Last edited by june 7th; 12-12-2011 at 10:26 AM..
 
Old 12-12-2011, 12:03 PM
 
37,606 posts, read 25,300,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Good questions! I believe it comes down to the credibility of the writers. Anyone who sacrificed animals to god to make it rain hardly seems like an authority on who god is. IMO. they blamed everything on god. No crops... Wrath of god. No rain... Wrath of god. Disease... Wrath of god... Etc.

You know? So taking the OT as more than historical is an error. Again IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Yep, and they also have recorded having been told by God to do all manner of stuff that is in direct violation of the 10 commandments. So I'm supposed to believe that Jehovah was telling his people to break the commandments, go out and slaughter everyone - etc. Sorry, I don't buy it. There is obviously something seriously weird going on in that OT. As a believer in Jesus Christ, I must reject the opposing image of God presented in the OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Exactly.. The OT writers were obviously working with a skewed image of god. Perhaps why Jesus separated himself by saying HE is the image of god, not the OT descriptions of him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes, the OT is cited whenever someone is trying to justify something the appears unjust. It's sad that Christianity has reverted to what looks more and more like sacrificial Judaism. Where god is a monster that requires appeasement.
Excellent answers.
Christ came to lift the veil of ignorance over reading the OT to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 12:33 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,690,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I see many folk here who don't like how God is portrayed in the OT. Practically all of Christian denominations, all 30,000 of them view the OT as true. The Jews (of which I am/was one) see the OT as true.

Jesus referenced the OT.

IMO not liking how God acted in the OT is your choice, but this is God. God who created all. As for me, I submit to God, regardless. I don't have to agree with how God choses to do stuff.

We are all given the choice to follow God. My decision is yes and I am not about to tell God how to run things.

So I ask those who think otherwise to explain how they think they can tell God how He should act and yet feel they can be right with the One who created all.

I am curious how this sort of theology works.

From my perspective, I can disagree with you about what you believe the OT says and not be trying to tell God how to run things.

In my opinion, most people who will say the OT is not true are actually saying they may not believe what you do about it.

I realize there can be exceptions to that. I have ran across people that want the bible to be false, they hang on to the idea that certain interpretations are the only way it was to be translated. This way, they can continue to argue that this or that is a contradiction, or not reasonable, etc. To acknowledge another way on interpretation takes that away from them.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 879,877 times
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A good question, it is indeed. One that can be difficult to answer with simplicity. I happen to believe that the Old Testament is pretty accurate as to what happened and what God wants us to know about that time period. Christ used many scripture references in His preaching and used many of the names of the Old Testament characters and never once did I see Him criticize or correct what Moses said. (Yes, he did say that we should return good for evil, but I think it is because since we are forgiven, we should also forgive--it was always so but in recorded history, we were not aware of it before the cross.) He did say that He was fulfilling the Law and never said correcting it. I do believe that God has effected a change in the way He deals with men now, a much more merciful way. I believe that what transpired in Old Testament times were done so for an example to us and probablyfor reasons we cannot understand now. I believe that there is much more to the sacrificial system than we can really wrap our brain around right now.

Just as babies, infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, and adults are all treated differently according to the stage of life they are at, I see that history shows the evolution of mankind from fairly primitive (tho certainly many civilizations had amazing skills and thoughts) to where we are today. We still are all very different from each other in the way we think, etc. and certain cultures would like to see a return to the days of primitive man. But I don't see a problem relating to a Father who seems unloving at times and also declares His neverending mercy and love for us. I think we just don't understand everything right now, we see through that dim glass where things might seem distorted and vague, but we will see very clearly when the time is right.

But I definitely agree that we can reject an image that someone might paint of God after we've seen and spent time with a Father who no longer appears to us as a stern, strict, mean-spirited Father. The 40 year old sees his loving father in a much different light than he did when he was 6 years old. One really doesn't revert to an old image once one sees a truer picture.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,102,566 times
Reputation: 970
I'm an atheist, so I can't speak from the point of view of a believer, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

If I did find out that the god of Abrahamic religions is true in some way, I would still not submit to him, even though he is the creator of all things. I don't see why being the creator of all things automatically grants him the right to be submitted to. Due to the (in my view) atrocities he had committed against his creation, I'd argue that he is worthy of nothing but spurning.

I guess I don't understand the point of view that "creator of all" should immediately be revered. Even the creator would have to prove his worth.
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