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Old 12-17-2011, 11:07 AM
 
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When we talk about soul sleep we don't believe that an immortal soul of a person sleeps in the grave, we believe that a person remains unconscious in the grave until the resurrection. For all those who oppose soul sleep and believe in the immortal soul, can you provide anything from the Bible that says people have an immortal soul? Can you show me where the soul of a person goes to heaven or hell at death?

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RobinRooper101 View Post
When we talk about soul sleep we don't believe that an immortal soul of a person sleeps in the grave, we believe that a person remains unconscious in the grave until the resurrection. For all those who oppose soul sleep and believe in the immortal soul, can you provide anything from the Bible that says people have an immortal soul? Can you show me where the soul of a person goes to heaven or hell at death?

Thanks
your soul goes to Hades at the moment of death. it has two sides, namely the paradise side (for the saved) and the torment side (for the 'rebels') of Hades. only at the moment of ressurection will you have a new glorified/eternal body.. (that also implies that your soul is released from hades then, and for lack of a better word it is "combined" with the new body. what if you do not have part in the first ressurection? well, your soul will stay in Hades for another 1000 years, and only after the milennium will you be ressurected and forced to stand before the Great White Throne where you will receive your eternal judgment. (after the great white throne judgment hades will be empty and destroyed so to speak)
therefore, we can say the deceased are now waiting. for what? some of them for a new glorious ressurection, and some for their coming horrific judgment.
whether you're conscious or not between death and ressurection, this I can't tell for sure for I've never died.. but I believe this sort of explanation above implies that you're indeed conscious because your soul lives on in the underworld and cannot die.

that's how I see revelation 20,21..
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RobinRooper101 View Post
When we talk about soul sleep we don't believe that an immortal soul of a person sleeps in the grave, we believe that a person remains unconscious in the grave until the resurrection. For all those who oppose soul sleep and believe in the immortal soul, can you provide anything from the Bible that says people have an immortal soul? Can you show me where the soul of a person goes to heaven or hell at death?

Thanks
The Bible shows that the soul of the believer goes to heaven when he dies. Physical death is simply the separation of the soul from the body.

Revelation 6:9-11, 7:9-10, and 20:4 all show the souls of tribulational martyrs in heaven prior to being resurrected. These passages also seem to indicate that those in heaven have an interim body of some sort after physical death and before receiving their resurrection bodies.

The elders mentioned in Rev 7:11,13 probably represent the church which will have already been resurrected and residing in heaven until the end of the Tribulation. Two different groups of people are in view. The resurrected church and the tribulational martyrs not yet resurrected.

As for unbelievers, Matthew 10:28 clearly shows that the soul of the unbeliever survives physical death. Matthew 10:28 speaks of the lake of fire - Gehenna, as the unbeliever goes into the lake of fire both body and soul.

Luke 16:19-31, which some try to explain away as simply being a parable, shows that before Jesus went to the cross and was resurrected, both the believer and unbeliever went to Hades. Before the cross, believers went to the Paradise side of Hades, while unbelievers went, and still go to the Torments side of Hades. Since the cross, Paradise is now in the third heaven which is where believers now go (2 Cor 12:1-6).

In 2 Peter 1:13-14, Peter's physical death was imminent. He spoke of laying aside his earthly dwelling (his body). Departing from it.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:33 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinRooper101 View Post
When we talk about soul sleep we don't believe that an immortal soul of a person sleeps in the grave, we believe that a person remains unconscious in the grave until the resurrection. For all those who oppose soul sleep and believe in the immortal soul, can you provide anything from the Bible that says people have an immortal soul? Can you show me where the soul of a person goes to heaven or hell at death?

Thanks
The first thing we need to do is determine what a 'soul' is? Why? Because contrary to popular teachings/belief ppl don't 'have' a soul; [something that's seperate from the body] we are a soul.

The next thing we need to do is define the word soul:

soul: nephesh and means a living being [for man] and a living creature [for animals]

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [ruwach=spirit] of life; and man became a living [chay=alive] soul.[nephesh]

Note it doesn't say God breathed into Adam a 'soul' but that Adam became a living soul.

Ge 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was goodan became a living soul.

Now another common teaching is that man has an immortal soul. Is this what the Scriptures teach? Contrary to popular belief the answer is, no. The Scriptures teach that only God/Christ have immortality:

1 Tim. 6:
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

And as to the teaching that a 'soul' goes to heaven or hell that too is contray to what Scriptures teach. Here's what it does teach:

Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the *spirit [ruwach=breath] shall return unto God who gave it.

*spirit ruwach and means mind, breath or wind.

So in order for a 'soul' to go to heaven [or hell, which btw means the grave] a living soul [a flesh and blood/ living being] would have to go to heaven.

Does the Scriptures teach flesh and blood men can enter the kingdom of God? I think we all know the answer to that is no.

So there you have it. Man is a living soul. How does he become a 'living' soul? The same way Adam did. God breaths into every baby [upon birth] the breath [spirit] of life and that baby becomes [just as Adam did] a living being/ a living soul.

So what happens upon death of this living soul? It goes into the grave to await the first resurrection mentioned in 1 Thess. 4:16 (dead in Christ shall rise [means to resurrect to live again]), and the spirit [breath of life] returns to God.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: NC
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Agree, thanks for sharing. God bless.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:18 PM
 
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Jesus told the story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man. He didn't mention Lazarus sleeping for awhile, but was instead carried to Abraham's bosom.

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
Jesus told the story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man. He didn't mention Lazarus sleeping for awhile, but was instead carried to Abraham's bosom.

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Yes, and Stephen said with his last breath "lord, receive the spirit of your servant". He knew he was going to be with the lord.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the *spirit [ruwach=breath] shall return unto God who gave it.

*spirit ruwach and means mind, breath or wind.

So in order for a 'soul' to go to heaven [or hell, which btw means the grave] a living soul [a flesh and blood/ living being] would have to go to heaven.
So what is the diffrence between the soul and the spirit? You refered to the spirit as one's mind. Others call the soul our mind. The body of course dies at death and becomes dust.

1Cor 2:11 says: For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. The spirit of a man knows his thougths. Sounds like one's mind-a conscious self aware thing.

Romans 8:16 says: The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. Once again we see the spirit of a man is a cognasent, aware entity.

And we see in Ecc12:7 that the spirit goes back to God at death.
******************
So are you SDA or JW? The two groups who teach soul-sleep.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Resurrection from the dead
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:59 PM
 
Location: NC
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I don't believe that the soul "sleeps" but that it is referred to as sleep by the Lord because death is a temporary condition. There are several scriptures which speak to the person being dead until the resurrection. The parable of Lazarus that Jesus taught from was a story that the Jews were familiar but did not originate from the Hebrew scriptures. He used it to teach a lesson. More on it later.

Death is a return to dust (Genesis 3:17-19, Psalm 166:2-4, Job 34: 15-16), Ecc. 12:7
Death is the opposite of life (Rev. 20:4-6, 2 Kings 20:1)
Death is described as sleep and rest (because it is temporary) (Psalm 13:3, 2 Thess: 4:13-18, Daniel 12:2, Acts 7:60, John 11:11, 1 Corin. 15: 50-57)
They (the dead) are silent and do not exercise mental powers (Job 3:11-22, Psalm 115:17, Psalm 6:5, Psalm 146:4)

They are not with Jesus in heaven (John 3:13, Acts: 2:34, 1 Timothy 6:16)

They do not live until the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:12-21, Rev. 20:4-6, John 5:28-29, Rev. 20:11-15)

1 Tim. 6:13-16 tells us that only Christ has immortality. No one else has it right now. And 1 Cor. 15:53 says that “this mortal must put on immortality.”

Faith in Jesus as our Savior does not swallow up death in victory. Believers are said to be dead. (1 Thess. 4:14, 1 Corin. 15:15:51, 53)

When is death swallowed up in victory?
When our Lord Jesus Christ returns and raises the dead and transforms the living. (1 Cor. 15:54-57)
 
If we go consciously to be with the Lord when we die, then there is no need for a resurrection. We do not really die. Technically believers to be with the Lord (because we are His), but not as conscious living beings. We are in His "hands." That Jesus will raise us to life is the glory of the resurrection, and anything else, to me, robs Him of this glory. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-21-2011 at 05:35 PM..
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