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Old 01-11-2012, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
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I've concluded from my personal meditations on this topic that what some people call the "rapture" is actually the first resurrection - the change that happens in the twinkling of an eye. But I never claim to be sure about these things because I am only human. I do think we are moving to a conclusion of time. But I believe those who do not make the first resurrection will still be saved later. They will die just as unbelievers have throughout history and await the resurrection of judgement. I do not know if I will be found worthy of the 1st resurrection. I would certainly like to be in that group. But I don't know if I am qualified. Only God knows. I think there will be a great tribulation - and soon. But I don't know if those who are raptured/resurrected before the 3 and 1/2 years of hell on earth (war to end all wars) will actually "leave the earth" or simply be changed into their spiritual bodies promised by God. I don't think God has to remove anyone from the earth. But those who are holy are promised to be changed before "that day". Who shall dwell with the devouring fire? Those who are pure.

Here's an interesting discussion about the rapture if you can view the link:

Rapture dream (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/book_revelation/rapture_dream_10137.0.html - broken link)
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:43 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 914,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is not I who need to gain understanding of what Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy means.

Both the crucifixion of Christ in 32 or 33 A.D. and the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. occurred after the 69th week (the seven weeks and then the sixty-two weeks) and prior to the 70th week. Since the destruction of the temple occurred after the 69th week and there has been no temple since 70 A.D., and since the anti-christ will set up his abomination of desolation in the temple midway through the 70th week, The 70th week has not occurred as of yet. Midway through the 70th week the anti-christ will put a stop to sacrifices in the temple and set up his image in that temple (Daniel 9:27; Matt 24:15; Rev 13:5-6).

Show you scripture which says that Jesus will take His people to heaven? Easily done. John 14:1-3 compared with 1 Thess 4:13-17.

Parallels between 1 Thess 4 and John 14:1-3

1 Thess 4:13-17 ~ John 14:1-3
that you may not grieve ~ Let not your heart be troubled

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again ~ believe in God, believe also in me

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord ~ if it were not so, I would have told you

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ~ I will come again

caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air ~ and receive you to myself

and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ that where I am, there you may be also.


Paul taught that the Church will be raptured (and therefore resurrected) at the end of the church-age.

In contrast to the resurrection and rapture of the church, Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs will be resurrected when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation which is the end of the age of Israel.


The Tribulation is for both Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations of the world. The church is neither one. Christ will return for His bride - the church to take her to heaven before judging Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations. While the Tribulation is taking place on earth the church will be undergoing the judgment seat of Christ by which the bride will have been made ready for the marriage of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-8).

The Tribulation is the time of Jacob's troubles (Jer 30:7), not the churches troubles.


I have already shown you in Revelation 13:5 that after breaking the covenant of peace midway through the tribulation as per Daniel 9:27, the anti-christ will be given 42 months (that's 3 1/2 years which is half of 7 years) to act. There is the seven years of the Tribulation - the 70th week of Daniels Prophecy.
Quote:
Show you scripture which says that Jesus will take His people to heaven? Easily done. John 14:1-3 compared with 1 Thess 4:13-17.
Again you just keep repeating the same men's teachings; doctrines of men, and totally ignore the plain truth of what's written in the Scriptures, and the definition of key words that I have shown you over and over.

Here's Strong's definition of the word house [oikia]: family, household, temple.

NOTE: the word 'heaven' isn't in the defintion. Why? Because Christ is talking about His family in John 14; not heaven:

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; [oikia]: whose house [oikia]: are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now go back and re-read 1 Thess. 4: 13-18 and show me where the word HEAVEN is in those passages AFTER the word descend which means to come down, fall down; step down.

NOTE: the word descend does NOT mean to stop 1/2 way in the outer atmosphere and hang there and then make a U-turn back to heaven.

And BTW, I was asking for a verse that says these words, "I am coming again to take my ppl to heaven."

YOu can't find such a verse because one does not exsist except in your own mind.

Quote:
Paul taught that the Church will be raptured (and therefore resurrected) at the end of the church-age.
Ah, so there's TWO resurrections of the dead then, huh? One when believers die [dead in Christ] and again for the same ppl when Christ raises/resurrects the dead at the last day of this aion/age or His second coming?

Show me Scripture that says believers will be resurrected twice.

THIS is the only resurrection of the just:


Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last [eschato=last in time or place] day.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:00 PM
 
12,786 posts, read 6,757,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Again you just keep repeating the same men's teachings; doctrines of men, and totally ignore the plain truth of what's written in the Scriptures, and the definition of key words that I have shown you over and over.
It is not I who am ignoring 'the plain truth of what's written in the Scriptures.' Those who do ignore the plain teaching of the Bible tend to dismiss the truth as the 'doctrines of men.'


Quote:
Here's Strong's definition of the word house [oikia]: family, household, temple.

NOTE: the word 'heaven' isn't in the defintion. Why? Because Christ is talking about His family in John 14; not heaven:

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; [oikia]: whose house [oikia]: are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
The Church is the royal family of God, and Christ will come for His church prior to the Tribulation and then return to heaven for the duration of the Tribulation.

Here is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance definition of Oikia;

home, household.

From oikos; properly, residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication, a family (especially domestics) -- home, house(-hold).
Strong's Greek: 3614. ????? (oikia) -- a house, dwelling


You would have people disregard the understanding of Theologians and interpreters as you do and dismiss their understanding as the doctrines of men.

Concerning John 14:2;

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
In my Father's house - Most interpreters understand this of heaven, as the special dwelling-place or palace of God; but it may include the universe, as the abode of the omnipresent God.
John 14:2 Bible Commentary

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
In my Father's house are many mansions,.... This he says to draw off their minds from an earthly kingdom to an heavenly one; to point out the place to them whither he was going, and to support them with the views and hopes of glory under all their troubles. By his "Father's house" is meant heaven; see 2 Corinthians 5:1; which is of his Father's building, where he has, and will have all his family.
John 14:2 Bible Commentary

2 Corinthians 5:1 'For we know that if the earthly tent (the body) which is our house (OIKIA) is torn down, we have a building from God, a house (OIKIAN) not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.'

People's New Testament

14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions. By the Father's house is meant the heavenly abode. He is about to return there, from whence he had come.

I go to prepare a place for you. If the separation was to be an eternal one, he would have forewarned them. Rather, he goes before to prepare a home for them where they can all be together. The departure of Jesus was needful to open an entrance to them and use.
John 14:2 Bible Commentary

The humanity of Jesus Christ is currently in heaven seated at the right hand of the Father (Heb 1:13). When an individual believer dies he enters into the presence of God in heaven as per 2 Cor 5:8 'we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.' But at the end of the church-age all church-age believers will be caught up to heaven where the church will undergo the judgment seat of Christ. At the end of the Tribulation the church will return with Christ to the earth.

John 14:2 ''In My Father's house (heaven) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go (to heaven) to prepare a place for you. 3] ''And if I go (to heaven) and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am (The humanity of Jesus is in heaven and is currently seated at the right hand of the Father), there you may be also.''

Quote:
Now go back and re-read 1 Thess. 4: 13-18 and show me where the word HEAVEN is in those passages AFTER the word descend which means to come down, fall down; step down.

NOTE: the word descend does NOT mean to stop 1/2 way in the outer atmosphere and hang there and then make a U-turn back to heaven.
And now, again, with what I said above in mind, here as in post #80 is the parallelism between 1 Thess 4:13-17 and John 14:1-3.

Parallels between 1 Thess 4 and John 14:1-3

1 Thess 4:13-17 ~ John 14:1-3
that you may not grieve ~ Let not your heart be troubled

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again ~ believe in God, believe also in me

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord ~ if it were not so, I would have told you

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ~ I will come again

caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air ~ and receive you to myself

and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ that where I am, there you may be also.



Quote:
And BTW, I was asking for a verse that says these words, "I am coming again to take my ppl to heaven."

YOu can't find such a verse because one does not exsist except in your own mind.
You just issued a challenge to find in the Bible a verse which YOU made up and then said that the sentence YOU made up only exists in MY mind. That's the same empty argument that people make when they say 'show me where the Bible says the word 'Trinity', or show me where the Bible says the word 'rapture.' '

Both 1 Thess 4:13-17 and John 14:1-3 are references to Christ coming to take His church to heaven.

Quote:
Ah, so there's TWO resurrections of the dead then, huh? One when believers die [dead in Christ] and again for the same ppl when Christ raises/resurrects the dead at the last day of this aion/age or His second coming?

Show me Scripture that says believers will be resurrected twice.
I don't know whether this is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what I said, or if you truly do not understand what I said.

Every believer goes directly to heaven when he dies. When Christ comes for those church-age believers who are alive on this earth, all church-age believers who have previously died and are in heaven will return with Christ to the clouds. Their bodies will be resurrected. Then those who are alive on the earth will be caught up into the clouds and their mortal bodies will be transformed into a body of immortality and incourruptability. Then the entire church will be taken up into heaven. This is what 1 Thess 4:14-17 is saying.


Quote:
THIS is the only resurrection of the just:


Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last [eschato=last in time or place] day.
On the last day of the church-age all church-age believers will be resurrected. This occurrs with the rapture of the church (1 Cor 15:51-53; 1 Thess 4:13-17).

On the last day of the age of Israel - the end of the Tribulation, all Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs will be resurrected (Rev 20:4).

Two different groups of believers, two different stages of the first resurrection occurring at two different times.

Furthermore, though not mentioned, all mortals living during the Millennium must also receive their resurrection bodies at the end of the Millennium. Technically however, if all Millennial believers live to the end of the Millennium, their mortal bodies, not having died, will simply be transformed into bodies of immortality and incorruptability rather then being resurrected - raised from the dead.

So that's three different groups of believers at three different times who will receive their resurrection bodies.

The bodies of all unbelievers will also be resurrected at the end of the Millennium to be to be cast into the lake of fire.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:25 PM
 
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I wonder how come no one mentioned that 7 raptures are mentioned in the bible.

I've heard some people claim that the word Rapture is not anywhere to be found in the bible; THAT'S NOT TRUE!

Anyone can look and find it; in a Latin Bible!

Enoch was "raptured" Eliajah was raptured. Jesus was also during his accension. I have provided 3. Do your homework and find the other four!

Yes seven raptures are spoken of in the bible! (How about that).
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:53 AM
Zur
 
786 posts, read 195,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDarO View Post
I wonder how come no one mentioned that 7 raptures are mentioned in the bible.

I've heard some people claim that the word Rapture is not anywhere to be found in the bible; THAT'S NOT TRUE!

Anyone can look and find it; in a Latin Bible!

Enoch was "raptured" Eliajah was raptured. Jesus was also during his accension. I have provided 3. Do your homework and find the other four!

Yes seven raptures are spoken of in the bible! (How about that).
We speak here about the Rapture that happens together with the Resurrection of the just (First Resurrection). The word "harpazo" is used in 2. Cor 12:2 where it says that Paul was caught up into the third heaven. But in 1. Thess 4:17 it says caught up into the air, why not into heaven, then it would be clear. We will be with the Lord. But the Lord descends and returns to earth (Hebr 9:28). So the Rapture will not be a rapture to heaven for ever, because Jesus will dwell at least after the new earth for ever with men. In the Millenium He will rule on earth, but I do not know, if He dwells already here, because I believe the New Jerusalem comes down after the Millennium, the earthly temple will be His footstole.
I agree that the Wedding will be in Heaven, Jesus will present His bride to the Father and the reward will be given at the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15-18). Then the Lord will recrute His army and comes back to earth, His wrath comes. All this happens at the Day of the Lord. Pre-trib says the Day of the Lord is 7 years, Mid-trib 3 1/2; Pre-Wrath 1 year or so and Post-trib 24 hours. All interpret the bible as they believe. But the bible says when the Day of the Lord begins.
Joel 2:30-32 says that the sun and moon be darkened before the day of the Lord come. Isa 13:10 says the same. In verse 11 God`s wrath comes and verse 12 says only few are left on earth. Will that happen 7 years before Christ`s return? How the multitude out of great tribulation in Rev 7:9-17 can be? The Sudden Destruction can only come at His second coming and not 7 years before. Mat 24:29-31 says that sun, moon and stars are darkened after the Tribulation ( see also Acts 2:20). The conclusion is clear, the Tribulation is not the Day of the Lord, the Lord will not be exalted in this time, the judgements of God are not final, repentence and the dispensation of grace ends at His second coming. Then is also the end of this age (Mat 13) and the last day, when the First Resurrection happens after the Tribulation (Rev 20:4+5). The harvest and the judgement go together (Rev 14:14-20). A church age that ends 7 years before Christ`s return is an assumtion.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:20 PM
 
12,786 posts, read 6,757,106 times
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
We speak here about the Rapture that happens together with the Resurrection of the just (First Resurrection). The word "harpazo" is used in 2. Cor 12:2 where it says that Paul was caught up into the third heaven. But in 1. Thess 4:17 it says caught up into the air, why not into heaven, then it would be clear. We will be with the Lord. But the Lord descends and returns to earth (Hebr 9:28). So the Rapture will not be a rapture to heaven for ever, because Jesus will dwell at least after the new earth for ever with men. In the Millenium He will rule on earth, but I do not know, if He dwells already here, because I believe the New Jerusalem comes down after the Millennium, the earthly temple will be His footstole.
I agree that the Wedding will be in Heaven, Jesus will present His bride to the Father and the reward will be given at the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15-18). Then the Lord will recrute His army and comes back to earth, His wrath comes. All this happens at the Day of the Lord. Pre-trib says the Day of the Lord is 7 years, Mid-trib 3 1/2; Pre-Wrath 1 year or so and Post-trib 24 hours. All interpret the bible as they believe. But the bible says when the Day of the Lord begins.
Joel 2:30-32 says that the sun and moon be darkened before the day of the Lord come. Isa 13:10 says the same. In verse 11 God`s wrath comes and verse 12 says only few are left on earth. Will that happen 7 years before Christ`s return? How the multitude out of great tribulation in Rev 7:9-17 can be? The Sudden Destruction can only come at His second coming and not 7 years before. Mat 24:29-31 says that sun, moon and stars are darkened after the Tribulation ( see also Acts 2:20). The conclusion is clear, the Tribulation is not the Day of the Lord, the Lord will not be exalted in this time, the judgements of God are not final, repentence and the dispensation of grace ends at His second coming. Then is also the end of this age (Mat 13) and the last day, when the First Resurrection happens after the Tribulation (Rev 20:4+5). The harvest and the judgement go together (Rev 14:14-20). A church age that ends 7 years before Christ`s return is an assumtion.
The rapture of the Church will take place before the Tribulation begins. As shown in the OP, Paul assured the Thessalonians that the Church would not go through the Tribulation. The Tribulation cannot begin as long as the Church is on the earth.

Additionally, the general outline of the Book of Revelation given in Rev. 1:19 shows that the Tribulation will come after the Church Age. The Church will not be on the earth during the Tribulation. Refer to post #1 in the following thread for that >> The Rapture of the Church is not a theory invented by man, and the Church will not go through the Tribulation

Then there is the fact that the raptured and resurrected Church, referred to as the bride, is seen in heaven during the Tribulation (Rev. 19:7-8).


As for the Day of the Lord, that phrase is a general term which refers to any period of direct judgment by God. There have been Days of the Lord historically as in Amos 5:18-20 in which God judged Israel and Judah as well as surrounding nations, and there will be Days of the Lord in the future.

Theologians disagree to the extent of what the Day of the Lord is. Some believe that the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of the Tribulation and extends to the end of the Millennium. Others believe that different passages refer to a specific Day of the Lord. This latter view seems to be more in keeping with Scripture. Within the Tribulation there is a Day of the Lord, referred to as 'the great day of their wrath' with reference to 'Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb' regarding the sixth seal judgement (Rev. 6:16-17). This is accompanied by a great earthquake, the darkening of the sun, the moon becoming like blood and the stars of the sky falling to earth (Rev. 6:12-13). And then later on, near the end of the Tribulation there is a Day of the Lord associated with the Armageddon campaign. With the sixth bowl judgement (see Rev. 16:12-16) the kings of the earth are gathered together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. This culminates with the final battle in Rev. 19.

Then there is another Day of the Lord which occurs at the end of the Millennial kingdom with the judgement of the present heavens and the earth in which they are destroyed as per 2 Peter 3:10-12

So as you can see, the phrase 'Day of the Lord' is a general term used for a period of divine judgement. The context determines which judgement is being addressed.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RaDarO View Post
Enoch was "raptured" Eliajah was raptured. Jesus was also during his accension. I have provided 3. Do your homework and find the other four!
.
Which verses do you have in mind ^ above ^ ?

The 'resurrected Jesus' ascended to heaven not raptured.- Acts 1 v 9
Jesus was resurrected by God back to the spirit realm in a spirit body.
Before Jesus died he could Not walk through locked doors or walls.
But using a materialized body after resurrection, then Jesus appeared in a locked room- John 20 v 19

Today we know the wind can be so strong that it can pick up a person and move that person away.
Elijah went in a whirlwind or windstorm in our atmospheric heavens where the birds fly [ not heaven itself ]. He went from one location to another. -2nd Kings 2 v 11
Elijah did Not 'go to heaven' that day because years later he was still alive on earth according to 2nd Chron. 21 vs 12-15

Enoch was 'taken by God' Not defied gravity by God. God did not permit enemies to kill off Enoch. -Gen. 5 v 24
God 'took' Enoch's life in that he did cut his life short, and as in the case of Moses God himself disposed of Enoch's body.- Hebrews 11 v 5; Deut. 34 vs 5,6

Didn't both Elijah and Enoch live before Jesus lived ?____
Jesus taught us at John [ 3 v 13 ] No one ascended before Jesus did, so that means neither Elijah nor Enoch did ascend.
So, like King David [ Acts 2 v 34 ] likewise none of them ascended to heaven.

None of them 'received the fulfillment of the promise' according to Hebrews [ 11 vs 13, 39 ] because all who died before Jesus will have Not a heavenly resurrection, but will have an earthly physical resurrection during Jesus 1000-year reign over Earth when there 'will be' [ future tense ] a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.- Acts 24 v 15
Resurrected to be 'princes', Not in heaven, but as princes in all the Earth.- Psalm 45 v 16
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:46 AM
Zur
 
786 posts, read 195,571 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The rapture of the Church will take place before the Tribulation begins. As shown in the OP, Paul assured the Thessalonians that the Church would not go through the Tribulation. The Tribulation cannot begin as long as the Church is on the earth.

Additionally, the general outline of the Book of Revelation given in Rev. 1:19 shows that the Tribulation will come after the Church Age. The Church will not be on the earth during the Tribulation. Refer to post #1 in the following thread for that >> The Rapture of the Church is not a theory invented by man, and the Church will not go through the Tribulation

Then there is the fact that the raptured and resurrected Church, referred to as the bride, is seen in heaven during the Tribulation (Rev. 19:7-8).


As for the Day of the Lord, that phrase is a general term which refers to any period of direct judgment by God. There have been Days of the Lord historically as in Amos 5:18-20 in which God judged Israel and Judah as well as surrounding nations, and there will be Days of the Lord in the future.

Theologians disagree to the extent of what the Day of the Lord is. Some believe that the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of the Tribulation and extends to the end of the Millennium. Others believe that different passages refer to a specific Day of the Lord. This latter view seems to be more in keeping with Scripture. Within the Tribulation there is a Day of the Lord, referred to as 'the great day of their wrath' with reference to 'Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb' regarding the sixth seal judgement (Rev. 6:16-17). This is accompanied by a great earthquake, the darkening of the sun, the moon becoming like blood and the stars of the sky falling to earth (Rev. 6:12-13). And then later on, near the end of the Tribulation there is a Day of the Lord associated with the Armageddon campaign. With the sixth bowl judgement (see Rev. 16:12-16) the kings of the earth are gathered together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. This culminates with the final battle in Rev. 19.

Then there is another Day of the Lord which occurs at the end of the Millennial kingdom with the judgement of the present heavens and the earth in which they are destroyed as per 2 Peter 3:10-12

So as you can see, the phrase 'Day of the Lord' is a general term used for a period of divine judgement. The context determines which judgement is being addressed.
Regarding the Day of the Lord and the great day of their wrath (Rev 6:12-17), this is the same as Jesus teaches in Mat 24 and there it is after the Tribulation. The Tribulation cannot be the Day of the Lord, because God sents Elija before the Day of the Lord (Mal 5:5) and that makes Pre-trib impossible. I believe that the 2 witnesses will be here in the last 3/12 years.
Rev 19:7+8 do not refer to the Tribulation, verse 6 says God reigns and in verse 9 Jesus returns to earth, all after the Tribulation.
The claim that Paul preached Pre-trib in 2. Thess 2:1-10, I do not see, the contrary is the case. He is telling the Thessalonians concerning His comming (singular) in Greek "parousia", which is used for His second coming and our gathering, which is the Rapture, that the Day of the Lord, which is after the Tribulation, is at hand. Paul is not speaking about the Tribulation, but about the Rapture and His coming and that first must come a rebellion and then the Antichrist will be revealed. This is confirmed in Dan 8:23, it says there when the rebellion comes to its fullness, then the Antichrist will come. The spirit of lawlessness is working already, but is restrained until the time, when the rebellion happens, what Paul told them bevor. Then "he", the Antichrist comes out of the midst (is no longer hidden, but revealed). The "he " is not the Holy Spirit nor the church, it is not mentioned in this verses at all. The Greek "he" points to a noun and that is the spirit of lawlessness or the Antichrist. The word taken "out of the way" is not in the Greek. The KJV says that the falling away is coming first, the same word "apostasia", from were the word "apostasy" comes is used in Acts 21:21 were it says "forsake", meaning a defection from truth. We have to interpret the bible with the bible and not to twist the word of God.
Regarding the First Resurrection you say there are two first resurrections. I do not agree, because Paul says we will all be changed at the last trump. There are not two last trumps and the last is not the first, you can be sure. The word "first" is "protos", meaning the main or the first of all, there has to follow another one, but not bevor. 1. Cor 15:23 gives us the answer, Jesus is the Firstfruits, then at His coming (singular) the main harvest and 1000 years later the second resurrection at the end. The bible gives us the time when "this is the first resurrection" happens, after the Tribulation.
The dispensation of the church I see as an dispensation of the dispensation of grace (Luke 16:16) that begins with the preaching of the kingdom and ends with Christ`s return.
Concerning the wrath of God we read in Rev 11:18 that there has come the time (kairos) where His wrath is come, it goes together with the Resurrection and the Rapture. Guess what, at the sevens trump, when the sevens angel will sound the mystery of God is finished, you have any suggestion what that secret is?
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:25 AM
 
Location: US
10,288 posts, read 3,937,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDarO View Post
I wonder how come no one mentioned that 7 raptures are mentioned in the bible.

I've heard some people claim that the word Rapture is not anywhere to be found in the bible; THAT'S NOT TRUE!

Anyone can look and find it; in a Latin Bible!

Enoch was "raptured" Eliajah was raptured. Jesus was also during his accension. I have provided 3. Do your homework and find the other four!

Yes seven raptures are spoken of in the bible! (How about that).
Did you now that there is a book in the OT written by someone after they were raptured (transported) and with eyewitnesses?...So, if this person was raptured how could he have then written a book of the OT after his rapture?...
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,641 posts, read 1,268,378 times
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this has always been a topic that is difficult to understand. I never really studied it, nor do i care to waste my days trying to figure it out. Especially when it comes to Quoting from Revelation. That book is so complicated then not 1 person will ever get it. If you believe that Christ can come before i finish this post that is good for you. If you dont believe it, that is good for you too. I share the love.
There are people who think they got it figured out, but they dont even know who they are in Christ, they dont live as a joint-heir with the King. They live their lives all depressed, chasing the next best thing. Chasing the next spiritual fix. Forget that. Know who you are in Christ and live that life. walk in the authority you are given. Stop walking defeated.
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