Is the Rapture of the Church clearly taught in the New Testament? Yes!!! (messages, punishment)

[Michael Way]

The following was originally intended as a reply to a post on another thread, but I felt that it needed to be made its own thread so that more people might see it and understand that the pre-tribulational rapture of the church is indeed clearly taught in the New Testament.

Excerpt from what follows...

***'Please understand what 2 Thess 2:1-8 is stating. The first mention of the coming of Christ in v1, is the rapture of the chuch. It is separated from the second mention of the coming of the Lord in v8 by the tribulation - the day of the Lord. The church has to be taken off the earth BEFORE the day of the Lord - the tribulation, can begin. The tribulation will be brought to an end with the coming of Christ mentioned in v8 and described in Revelation 19:11-21.

2 Thess 2:1-8 ---> Coming of Christ for the church (the rapture of the church) ---> followed by the tribulation ---> tribulation terminated with the coming of the Lord to set of His kingdom.'

Please read carefully.

The age of Israel was interrupted, put on hold on the day of Pentecost for the purpose of calling out a people for Christ called the church which is a new spiritual species (2 Cor 5:17). When God brings the dispensation of the church to an end He will remove the church from the earth and take it into heaven where the judgment seat of Christ for church-age believers will take place (I Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10). As a result of having undergone the judgment seat of Christ the bride (the church) will have made herself ready for the marriage of the Lamb as mentioned in Rev 19:7-8.

The means by which the church is taken up into heaven is what we call the rapture. And no, the word rapture is not found in the Bible. But the event that we call the rapture is taught in the Bible.

In John 14:1-3 Jesus was not referring to the Millennial kingdom as some assume. Nor was He talking about an individual believers death and going into heaven. The believer does go to heaven when He dies, but that was not what Jesus was referring to. He was referring to taking the church up into heaven at the end of the church-age.

John 14:1 ''Let not your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2] In My Father's house (the third heaven - 2 Cor. 12:1-6) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3] ''And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.''

Regarding John 14:3 C. I. Scofield writes...

1(14:3) As a part of this discourse, which has been of comfort to the Church throughout the centuries, the Lord gives a promise of His personal return for His own people, a doctrine that is expanded by the Apostle Paul in 1 Th.4:13-18. This aspect of Christ's return is to be distinquished from His coming to the earth to establish His kingdom (Rev.19:11-16).

New Scofield Reference Edition, 1967, p. 1146

1 Thess 4:13 'But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep (a reference not to the soul, but to the body) that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus (Jesus will bring with Him from heaven those church-age believers who have died and are in heaven). 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God (see 1 Cor 15:52 for the last trumpet); and the dead in Christ shall rise first (the resurrection of the bodies of those church-age believers who have died). 17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The last trumpet mentioned in 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:52 is NOT the 7th trumpet mentioned in Revelation 11:15. I will let you do your own research on that.

Because the Thessalonians were receiving messages from false teachers indicating that they had missed the rapture and were in the tribulation, Paul had to reassure them with his letter - 2 Thess 2:1-8 that the tribulation - a portion of the day of the Lord, could not come until the church was removed from the earth, and with it the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit who indwells the church-age believer. Because the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, He will still be present, but His restraining ministry will cease allowing the antichrist - the man of lawlessness to reveal himself.

2 Thess 2:1 'Now we request you brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (the rapture of the church), 2] that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord (the tribulation) has come. 3] Let no one deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4] who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of god, displaying himself as being God. 5] Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6] And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. 7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8] And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming.'

***Please understand what 2 Thess 2:1-8 is stating. The first mention of the coming of Christ in v1, is the rapture of the chuch. It is separated from the second mention of the coming of the Lord in v8 by the tribulation - the day of the Lord. The church has to be taken off the earth BEFORE the day of the Lord - the tribulation, can begin. The tribulation will be brought to an end with the coming of Christ mentioned in v8 and described in Revelation 19:11-21.

2 Thess 2:1-8 ---> Coming of Christ for the church (the rapture of the church) ---> followed by the tribulation ---> tribulation terminated with the coming of the Lord to set of His kingdom.

The tribulation is the last seven years remaining to the age of Israel which was put on hold for the church-age. The tribulation is the last week of Daniels 70 weeks (of years equaling 490 years) - Daniel 9:24-27. When the church is taken off the earth, the tribulation will begin at some point shortly thereafter, but not necessarily immediately. It will begin with the signing of the peace treaty (Dan 9:27) by the man of lawlessness.

While the tribulation is taking place on the earth, the church is in heaven having been raptured or caught up. The church will return to the earth with the Lord at the end of the tribulation.

CHRISTIAN!!! Do not be shaken, do not be deceived by those who tell you that there is no rapture or that you will have to go through the tribulation. Scripture says otherwise.

2 Thess 2:1 'Now we request you brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (the rapture of the church), 2] that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord (the tribulation) has come. 3] Let no one deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4] who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of god, displaying himself as being God. 5] Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6] And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. 7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8] And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming.'

The coming of the Lord for His church will occur when the Lord declares that the formation of the church, a new creation - a new spiritual species has been completed. And may it be soon!!!

You have been corrected on this many times - why don't you post the link to the thread that you were responding to so that we can get some context of what prompted you to start this thread?

There are only 2 'comings' - the First and Second.

Chapter 1 deals with the Judgment of the wicked at his 2nd coming.

Chapter 2 deals with the righteous at his 2nd coming.

2:8 deals with the specific judgment of the Man of Sin at His 2nd coming.

It is the same 'coming' in the context of Chapter 1-2:8.

There is no special 1.5 coming. Paul does not deal with two comings - Ch.1 Second Coming; Ch.2 - Special Rapture Coming; and Ch.2:8 back again to the Second Coming.

The 'coming' in 2:1 is not the same thing as the 'gathering together' but they do happen SIMULTANEOUSLY - and after the rebellion and the revealing of the man of sin becuase that must come FIRST - therefore it cannot be prior to those events.

The 'coming' is the 2nd Coming and the 'gathering together' is talking about those who are alive and those who are dead - IN CHRIST - being united in resurrection when he returns.

Those who are alive will be rapture/resurrected and those who dead will be resurrected - that is changed in a moment in a twinkling of a eye. The dead will precede those who remain alive at his return.

I have exegeted this before but you do not take it to heart

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

You have been corrected on this many times - why don't you post the link to the thread that you were responding to so that we can get some context of what prompted you to start this thread?

There are only 2 'comings' - the First and Second.

Chapter 1 deals with the Judgment of the wicked at his 2nd coming.

Chapter 2 deals with the righteous at his 2nd coming.

2:8 deals with the specific judgment of the Man of Sin at His 2nd coming.

It is the same 'coming' in the context of Chapter 1-2:8.

There is no special 1.5 coming. Paul does not deal with two comings - Ch.1 Second Coming; Ch.2 - Special Rapture Coming; and Ch.2:8 back again to the Second Coming.

The 'coming' in 2:1 is not the same thing as the 'gathering together' but they do happen SIMULTANEOUSLY - and after the rebellion and the revealing of the man of sin becuase that must come FIRST - therefore it cannot be prior to those events.

I have exegeted this before but you do not take it to heart

It is you who are in need of correction. Open your eyes and actually read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by Mike555

It is you who are in need of correction. Open your eyes and actually read what I wrote.

I did - why don't you post a link to that thread?

[ancient warrior]

Mike 555 posted:

1 Thess 4:15,17 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. ....17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

RESPONSE:

But none of Paul's generation are alive and remain. Jesus did not come a second time during their lifetime.

[jghorton]

I also believe that the Bible clearly teaches a pre-Tribulation Rapture and have expanded on ten scripturally supported reasons below. But, ultimately, whether we are 'Raptured' or die and immediately "go to meet the Lord in the air" --- the individual experience will be the same. I believe that the real question believers should ask themselves is, "How are you living now, in response to either the possibility of a 'sudden rapture' ... or the possibility of your own unexpected death?"

“10 Compelling Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.”- with scripture references

1) A pre-Tribulation Rapture is supported by Scripture -- Scripture repeatedly refers to the sudden removal (‘Rapture’) of believers. God’s promises to keep His people from His wrath and the time of the Great Tribulation.

a) Some are taken, others are left behind - Mat 24:37-44
b) Caught up to meet Lord in the clouds - 1 Th. 4:16-17
c) Some are kept from wrath - Rev 3:10, I Th. 5:9; Lk 21:36
d) Changed in the twinkling of an eye – 1 Cor 15:51-52
e) Wicked punished (Tribulation) Eph 5:6-7; Is. 26:20-21


2)God’s wrath and judgment are not intended for Christ’s church - God has always removed His people from the path of His wrath and judgment.

a) God’s divine protection - ITh.1:10; 5:9; Rom 5:9; Eph 5:6;
Gal 3:16; 2 Pet 2:9; Rev 3:10
b) Noah–Gn7:1;Lot–Gn19:23-25; Passover-Ex12:12-14
c) Salvation: Rom 3:23; 6:23; IJN 1:10
d). Pray for deliverance from Great Tribulation (Lk 21:36)

3) Christ’s church is mysteriously absent during the entire 16 chapter description of the Great Tribulation on earth

a) “Church” 20 times and 7 letters - Rev 1-3
b) No reference to the church on earth during Great Tribulation
c) God’s people (church) appears from Heaven (Rev 19, 21:22) .

4) God’s protection of some believers, and wrath for others, is unprecedented

a) Only 144,000 are sealed / protected on earth Rev 7:1-14
b) “God is no respecter of persons” - Act 10:34
c) All believers are one; One bread/body - Gal 3:28; 1Cor 10:17

5). The removal of God’s Holy Spirit makes way for the rise of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. – [Yet God has promised to never leave or take His Spirit from believers]

a) Holy Spirit removed - 2 Thes 2:7-8
b) Satan’s empowered to make war against saints - Rev 13:7-8
c) Take a number; worship the beast – Rev. 13:14-16
d) God will be with believers always - Mat 28:20+
e). Nothing separates believers from God’s love – Rom 8:36-38

6). The 7-year Great Tribulation is a final opportunityfor the lost to repent and be saved

a) Remaining new believers are martyred (#5) - Rev 6:9-11
b) Multitude of martyred Tribulation believers – Rev. 7:14
c) It is not God’s will that any should perish - 2 Pet 3:9
d) Lives of last generation lost otherwise cut short

7) Christ will first return in the air/clouds (rapture) – After the Tribulation, Christ will return to earth on the Mount of Olives

a) Meet Lord in the Clouds - I Thes 4:16-17
b) “I will come back and take you with me” - Jn 14:23
c) Return with army of believers.- Rev 19:14
d) Feet will stand on mount of Olives – Zech. 14:3-4
e) City Split in three parts - Zech 14 & Rev 16:17-19

8) Conditions on earth toward the middle and end of the Great Tribulation are horrific and inconsistent with those described when believers are caught-up to meet the Lord in the air (Rapture) –Mat. 24:37-44; 1Thes 4:16-17

a) There will be Tribulation on earth unlike any time ever before or again. - Mat 24:21
b) People working side-by-side in fields; on roofs; etc.; eating, drinking, marrying and suddenly taken - Mat 24:37-44; Lk 17
c) All grass and wheat destroyed; Ships & marine life are destroyed; Fresh water is poison and turned to blood;
Men attacked by demons; develop boils, and are killed. Rev 8:7; 16:3-17

9).. A mid Tribulation rapture leaves no saints on earth to make war against, during Satan’s 42-month War

a) At 42-months, beast given power to make war against the saints and overcome (martyr) them. - Rev 13:4-8 –

10) There are significant differences between Christ’s Rapture of the church, and the Glorious Appearing of Christ at the end of the Great Tribulation–

a) Believers are gathered from heaven as army; The earth will mourn - Mat 24:30-31 – Rev 19:14;
b) Believers rejoice when Christ Comes - Jn 16:21-22; I Ch 16:10; Lk 19:37; Rev 12:12
c). Earth will mourn at final return of Christ

Originally Posted by jghorton

I also believe that the Bible clearly teaches a pre-Tribulation Rapture and have expanded on ten scripturally supported reasons below. But, ultimately, whether we are 'Raptured' or die and immediately "go to meet the Lord in the air" --- the individual experience will be the same. I believe that the real question believers should ask themselves is, "How are you living now, in response to either the possibility of a 'sudden rapture' ... or the possibility of your own unexpected death?"

“10 Compelling Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.”- with scripture references

1) A pre-Tribulation Rapture is supported by Scripture -- Scripture repeatedly refers to the sudden removal (‘Rapture’) of believers. God’s promises to keep His people from His wrath and the time of the Great Tribulation.

a) Some are taken, others are left behind - Mat 24:37-44
b) Caught up to meet Lord in the clouds - 1 Th. 4:16-17
c) Some are kept from wrath - Rev 3:10, I Th. 5:9; Lk 21:36
d) Changed in the twinkling of an eye – 1 Cor 15:51-52
e) Wicked punished (Tribulation) Eph 5:6-7; Is. 26:20-21

I am not going to get too detailed but every one of these things has problems so I will point some things out in order to prompt you to think more clearly and do a better exegetical job of reading the Bible.

a) The ones who are taken are the wicked
b) The rapture is the resurrection of the body for those who happen to be alive when Christ returns - ask yourself when does the resurrection of those who are in Christ take place?
c) Study the term Kept from a little more closely
d) That has to do with the resurrection - see b).
e) Punishment from God and persucution are different and the purpose of the rapture/resurrection is not to escape persucation but to resurrect those who are alive when Christ returns. And it would not pertain to judgement of the wicked - the two can be kept seperate - hence a clue from Rev.3:10 - 'kept from' the trial that will affect the wicked. That does not mean a necessary removal from the planet.

Anyway, the same could be said of all of what you wrote.

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

Mike 555 posted:

1 Thess 4:15,17 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. ....17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

RESPONSE:

But none of Paul's generation are alive and remain. Jesus did not come a second time during their lifetime.

Yes, Paul thought that the return of the Lord would be during the disciples and apostles liftime. Another clue is to take the natural reading and intent of verse 4, where the man of sin takes his place in the Temple of God - which is probably patterned after Antiochus. The Temple is long gone and removed from that generation since 70 CE.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

I did - why don't you post a link to that thread?

Here is the link.

please, be warned!! This is real!!

BUT I do NOT support the beliefs of the original poster who is a date setter and thinks that we are already in the tribulation. I simply replied to someone in post # 33.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by jghorton

I also believe that the Bible clearly teaches a pre-Tribulation Rapture and have expanded on ten scripturally supported reasons below. But, ultimately, whether we are 'Raptured' or die and immediately "go to meet the Lord in the air" --- the individual experience will be the same. I believe that the real question believers should ask themselves is, "How are you living now, in response to either the possibility of a 'sudden rapture' ... or the possibility of your own unexpected death?"

“10 Compelling Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.”- with scripture references

1) A pre-Tribulation Rapture is supported by Scripture -- Scripture repeatedly refers to the sudden removal (‘Rapture’) of believers. God’s promises to keep His people from His wrath and the time of the Great Tribulation.

a) Some are taken, others are left behind - Mat 24:37-44
b) Caught up to meet Lord in the clouds - 1 Th. 4:16-17
c) Some are kept from wrath - Rev 3:10, I Th. 5:9; Lk 21:36
d) Changed in the twinkling of an eye – 1 Cor 15:51-52
e) Wicked punished (Tribulation) Eph 5:6-7; Is. 26:20-21


2)God’s wrath and judgment are not intended for Christ’s church - God has always removed His people from the path of His wrath and judgment.

a) God’s divine protection - ITh.1:10; 5:9; Rom 5:9; Eph 5:6;
Gal 3:16; 2 Pet 2:9; Rev 3:10
b) Noah–Gn7:1;Lot–Gn19:23-25; Passover-Ex12:12-14
c) Salvation: Rom 3:23; 6:23; IJN 1:10
d). Pray for deliverance from Great Tribulation (Lk 21:36)

3) Christ’s church is mysteriously absent during the entire 16 chapter description of the Great Tribulation on earth

a) “Church” 20 times and 7 letters - Rev 1-3
b) No reference to the church on earth during Great Tribulation
c) God’s people (church) appears from Heaven (Rev 19, 21:22) .

4) God’s protection of some believers, and wrath for others, is unprecedented

a) Only 144,000 are sealed / protected on earth Rev 7:1-14
b) “God is no respecter of persons” - Act 10:34
c) All believers are one; One bread/body - Gal 3:28; 1Cor 10:17

5). The removal of God’s Holy Spirit makes way for the rise of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. – [Yet God has promised to never leave or take His Spirit from believers]

a) Holy Spirit removed - 2 Thes 2:7-8
b) Satan’s empowered to make war against saints - Rev 13:7-8
c) Take a number; worship the beast – Rev. 13:14-16
d) God will be with believers always - Mat 28:20+
e). Nothing separates believers from God’s love – Rom 8:36-38

6). The 7-year Great Tribulation is a final opportunityfor the lost to repent and be saved

a) Remaining new believers are martyred (#5) - Rev 6:9-11
b) Multitude of martyred Tribulation believers – Rev. 7:14
c) It is not God’s will that any should perish - 2 Pet 3:9
d) Lives of last generation lost otherwise cut short

7) Christ will first return in the air/clouds (rapture) – After the Tribulation, Christ will return to earth on the Mount of Olives

a) Meet Lord in the Clouds - I Thes 4:16-17
b) “I will come back and take you with me” - Jn 14:23
c) Return with army of believers.- Rev 19:14
d) Feet will stand on mount of Olives – Zech. 14:3-4
e) City Split in three parts - Zech 14 & Rev 16:17-19

8) Conditions on earth toward the middle and end of the Great Tribulation are horrific and inconsistent with those described when believers are caught-up to meet the Lord in the air (Rapture) –Mat. 24:37-44; 1Thes 4:16-17

a) There will be Tribulation on earth unlike any time ever before or again. - Mat 24:21
b) People working side-by-side in fields; on roofs; etc.; eating, drinking, marrying and suddenly taken - Mat 24:37-44; Lk 17
c) All grass and wheat destroyed; Ships & marine life are destroyed; Fresh water is poison and turned to blood;
Men attacked by demons; develop boils, and are killed. Rev 8:7; 16:3-17

9).. A mid Tribulation rapture leaves no saints on earth to make war against, during Satan’s 42-month War

a) At 42-months, beast given power to make war against the saints and overcome (martyr) them. - Rev 13:4-8 –

10) There are significant differences between Christ’s Rapture of the church, and the Glorious Appearing of Christ at the end of the Great Tribulation–

a) Believers are gathered from heaven as army; The earth will mourn - Mat 24:30-31 – Rev 19:14;
b) Believers rejoice when Christ Comes - Jn 16:21-22; I Ch 16:10; Lk 19:37; Rev 12:12
c). Earth will mourn at final return of Christ

Thanks for posting that. And Yes! The believer should be living his life in the light of eternity. Either death or the rapture could occur at any time.