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Old 12-29-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,122,346 times
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In consideration of Matthew 23:37,

"Jerusalem! Jerusalem! How many times do I want to assemble your children in the manner a hen is assembling her brood under her wings-and you will not!"

Was Jerusalem wrong for failing to accept Jesus? Yes, those who rejected the Lord and crucified Him were wrong. But it was part of the plan. What if they had chosen Him and accepted Him? How then would the scriptures have been fulfilled? He would not have had to suffer and die but we know that He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) It had to be done. Jesus felt the pain of rejection just like he felt the pain of Judas betraying Him but it had to be done. Jesus came in the flesh and experienced the emotions, just as he did when Lazarus died, and Mary wept. Yet and still He knew that Lazarus would come forth anyway. He was sorrowful but He knew what was going to happen.

The people had to reject Him, so then, were they really refusing Him of their own free will, if the scriptures had to be fulfilled? God bless.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:02 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 12,896,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
::Sigh:: But that has already been done . . . it is finished as regards the saving. Christ DID that. It is only the sanctification/justification that remains in our hands based on our faithful adoption of Christ's Holy Spirit of agape love. It is that one Spirit that defines Christ's church and its members . . . not the "precepts and doctrines of men." We are justified and sanctified by our daily "love of God and each other" . . . and our repentance when we fail.
Mystic, not all mankind are chosen for the future age-duing life. Not all are saved to live through the future two ages to come.

God chooses specific ones called "vessels of mercy" to be saved for the coming ages. At the end of the ages the rest of humanity comes into salvation.

All mankind are not called into the body of Christ during the ages. You dig, man?
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: NC
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Agree. God bless.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:41 PM
 
39,874 posts, read 26,630,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Mystic, not all mankind are chosen for the future age-duing life. Not all are saved to live through the future two ages to come.

God chooses specific ones called "vessels of mercy" to be saved for the coming ages. At the end of the ages the rest of humanity comes into salvation.

All mankind are not called into the body of Christ during the ages. You dig, man?
I dig, my brother . . . but we differ on what that means, that's all. I do not credit magical thinking . . . so everything I accept has had to pass the "scientific sniff test." Consequently, I have a different view of the reality beneath the ancient descriptions. Not to worry . . . the ONLY critical requirement for any of us is to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It is that simple . . . and when you think about it why would our loving Father have made it any more difficult? Peace in Christ's love, bro.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:51 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 12,896,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I dig, my brother . . . but we differ on what that means, that's all. I do not credit magical thinking . . . so everything I accept has had to pass the "scientific sniff test." Consequently, I have a different view of the reality beneath the ancient descriptions. Not to worry . . . the ONLY critical requirement for any of us is to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It is that simple . . . and when you think about it why would our loving Father have made it any more difficult? Peace in Christ's love, bro.
The only requirement to be met is that we are sinners. Christ came to save sinners.



that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren." Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also."

Do you see that? The end result of glorification is begun by God designating beforehand those He calls.

‘‘The everyday mud world
we’re living in today,
compared to the spiritual world,
is like a parasite compared to the ocean.”
—Jimi Hendrix
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,745 posts, read 34,208,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
In consideration of Matthew 23:37,

"Jerusalem! Jerusalem! How many times do I want to assemble your children in the manner a hen is assembling her brood under her wings-and you will not!"

Was Jerusalem wrong for failing to accept Jesus? Yes, those who rejected the Lord and crucified Him were wrong. But it was part of the plan. What if they had chosen Him and accepted Him? How then would the scriptures have been fulfilled? He would not have had to suffer and die but we know that He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) It had to be done. Jesus felt the pain of rejection just like he felt the pain of Judas betraying Him but it had to be done. Jesus came in the flesh and experienced the emotions, just as he did when Lazarus died, and Mary wept. Yet and still He knew that Lazarus would come forth anyway. He was sorrowful but He knew what was going to happen.

The people had to reject Him, so then, were they really refusing Him of their own free will, if the scriptures had to be fulfilled? God bless.
According to your theory, God plots against men, by offering them salvation while making sure it is impossible to have it. Did God do that in the days of Noah? Did he make sure the people would NOT listen to Him, so He could kill them? If so, then why did He weep, when He watched the wickedness of men? Does He take pleasure in the death of the wicked? The Bible says He does not.

No, He WANTED then to come to Him, but they refused. If they had come earlier, things would have been different. Because of their rejection, the truth and peace had been taken away from them.

Luke 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes"

See here again "yet you refuse to come to me to have life"

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
According to your theory, God plots against men, by offering them salvation while making sure it is impossible to have it.
No, I don't believe that, Finn. God offers salvation to all and saves all. The rejection of Him is only temporary. I believe that the rejection of Jerusalem was part of the plan, although Jesus was sorrowful. They still had to reject Him. How would the scriptures have been fufilled? God knows everything from beginning to end. I believe that God many times expresses human emotion to get down on our level to communicate with us and to teach us, but He already knows what is going to happen. Just as in the scriptures, it is recorded that He was very sorry that He made man and sent the flood to destroy the wicked. We also know that Jesus gave His life for those people that were destroyed and that Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. They will also swear allegiance to Him one day. God bless.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:34 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,012,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, this is a contradiction. How is everyone then being given an opportunity when He already knows that they will not choose Him before He created them?
Why cannot He not violate the free will of man. He has done this as recorded in the scriptures.

Romans 9:18
"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."


He is to subject all things to Himself?

Hebrews 2:
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.




God can violate man's free will, because He has all power and it is His will that will be done, not ours, not what is believed to be man's free will. God's will is not subservient to our will.


Ephesians 1:
9 He [j]made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His [k]kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration [l]suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things [m]in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 [n]also we [o]have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in [p]Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 (NAS)


The scriptures say that one who commits sin is a slave to sin, so where is free will here? God bless.
MT 11:20 "Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:" He drew them as faithful creator but they did not repent. It proves that He did His job and in the end they can not say I did not know."
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,745 posts, read 34,208,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
No, I don't believe that, Finn. God offers salvation to all and saves all. The rejection of Him is only temporary. I believe that the rejection of Jerusalem was part of the plan, although Jesus was sorrowful.
He would not have said what He said if was a part of the plot (same as in Noah's case).
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:46 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,012,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
According to your theory, God plots against men, by offering them salvation while making sure it is impossible to have it. Did God do that in the days of Noah? Did he make sure the people would NOT listen to Him, so He could kill them? If so, then why did He weep, when He watched the wickedness of men? Does He take pleasure in the death of the wicked? The Bible says He does not.

No, He WANTED then to come to Him, but they refused. If they had come earlier, things would have been different. Because of their rejection, the truth and peace had been taken away from them.

Luke 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes"

See here again "yet you refuse to come to me to have life"

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Very clear!
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