U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:03 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
So I repeat

I believe the contents of the books of the Bible that translate aion and aionios literally instead of interpretively. I know of fifteen translations that do that.

In what way is that not answering your question?

Do you believe every verse in the bible contains truth?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,536,212 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Do you believe every verse in the bible contains truth?
Yes, but there is a variety of opinions about just what "truth" each verse contains.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:22 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Yes, but there is a variety of opinions about just what "truth" each verse contains.
I know, that is why I told you I was not going to argue about specific theology. There are some in the forum that take liberties with scripture. they quote scripture claiming that is proof of the biblical truth but then say they don't have to believe the old testament. So I was just getting some ground work from your point of view before I discussed this with you any further.

I also believe the whole bible is truth, but what I believe it is telling me certainly is not what others believe and that is ok with me.


Your thread title alone contradicts the whole premise you assert. According to you nothing can actually be random.

While I do not deny influence and causal factors, that alone does not inherantly dictate that the human will can't choose something that it does not prefer.

The story of Paul appears to refute the idea that any and all choices we make are only that which we prefer most, he says he will do things he does not want to do.

How does a person only and always choose what they prefer most while having the understanding that they chose to do something they did not prefer to do?


I do agree that for the most part, we do choose what we prefer, that does not dictate that it must be so in every instance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,536,212 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I know, that is why I told you I was not going to argue about specific theology. There are some in the forum that take liberties with scripture. they quote scripture claiming that is proof of the biblical truth but then say they don't have to believe the old testament. So I was just getting some ground work from your point of view before I discussed this with you any further.

I also believe the whole bible is truth, but what I believe it is telling me certainly is not what others believe and that is ok with me.


Your thread title alone contradicts the whole premise you assert. According to you nothing can actually be random.

While I do not deny influence and causal factors, that alone does not inherantly dictate that the human will can't choose something that it does not prefer.

The story of Paul appears to refute the idea that any and all choices we make are only that which we prefer most, he says he will do things he does not want to do.

How does a person only and always choose what they prefer most while having the understanding that they chose to do something they did not prefer to do?


I do agree that for the most part, we do choose what we prefer, that does not dictate that it must be so in every instance.
IMO, the fact that we actually choose something proves that we prefer it the MOST at that moment in time, unless we choose it reflexivey without any thought.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:35 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
IMO, the fact that we actually choose something proves that we prefer it the MOST at that moment in time, unless we choose it reflexivey without any thought.
Well, let me not be misunderstood, I think in most cases that is the nature of our choices. But I do not believe that the act of choosing something dictates that is the case in every instance. I believe in some circumstances we may choose something without thought, or at least without much thought or influences overwhelm our senses and dictate an instinctive choice.


Can you explain then why scripture would have an instance where it appears someone chose to do something they did not seem to prefer to do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,536,212 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Well, let me not be misunderstood, I think in most cases that is the nature of our choices. But I do not believe that the act of choosing something dictates that is the case in every instance. I believe in some circumstances we may choose something without thought, or at least without much thought or influences overwhelm our senses and dictate an instinctive choice.

Can you explain then why scripture would have an instance where it appears someone chose to do something they did not seem to prefer to do?
In my OP I explained at some length my point of view of Paul's dilema.
IMO, occasionally, Paul actually preferred sinning, even though he claims he didn't.
Actions speak louder than words.
Why not check out my OP on what I said about it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:45 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
In my OP I explained at some length my point of view of Paul's dilema.
IMO, occasionally, Paul actually preferred sinning, even though he claims he didn't.
Actions speak louder than words.
Why not check out my OP on what I said about it?

That is why I asked you about scripture, are you saying Paul is lying about not really wanting to sin?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,536,212 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is why I asked you about scripture, are you saying Paul is lying about not really wanting to sin?
Paul wasn't lying. His basic attitude was against sinning. But there were times that he preferred MOST to sin because that was the strongest influence in his life.

Of course Paul basically preferred to not sin. But there were occasions that he preferred to sin MORE than he preferred not to.

That is how I see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 01:19 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Paul wasn't lying. His basic attitude was against sinning. But there were times that he preferred MOST to sin because that was the strongest influence in his life.

Of course Paul basically preferred to not sin. But there were occasions that he preferred to sin MORE than he preferred not to.

That is how I see it.
I realize that is how you see it, I simply am trying to get your explanation from your point of view of scripture.

What shows us in scripture that Paul preferred most to sin, when he said he preferred not to.

My point is that there can be influences that overwhelm our senses and we choose things out of a reaction to them as opposed to a choice of preference. In such cases we would not choose what we preferred most.

I believe Paul is telling us why we should run the race, persevere, and work out our salvation so that we train ourselves to be like Jesus where we destroy the old in us so that we can always prefer to choose the right thing and that then we DO choose it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2012, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,536,212 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I realize that is how you see it, I simply am trying to get your explanation from your point of view of scripture.

What shows us in scripture that Paul preferred most to sin, when he said he preferred not to.

My point is that there can be influences that overwhelm our senses and we choose things out of a reaction to them as opposed to a choice of preference. In such cases we would not choose what we preferred most.

I believe Paul is telling us why we should run the race, persevere, and work out our salvation so that we train ourselves to be like Jesus where we destroy the old in us so that we can always prefer to choose the right thing and that then we DO choose it.
IMO the fact that we actually choose something proves that we preferrred it MORE at that point in time than we preferred something else.

I do agree with your last paragraph.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top