Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But if both sides want to debate issues like this shouldn't they be allowed to? anyone who wants to start threads on encouragement can do so surely, and if the threads get hijacked mods will intervene.
I didn't ask for a debate, but this particular person has decided that is what he/she is here for
And it isn't just towards me, it seems to be towards every single poster.
But that's ok, if people really do want to argue, I can just move on, I haven't been on this forum in a very long time. Not sure why I thought of checking it out again.
The Holy Spirit influences ALL human beings because He is within our consciousness as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in love, NOT "written in ink" and stone in primitive fear of God. You are trapped in the primitive fear of God and human-created concepts of blood sacrifice to appease God and some kind of punishment for those who do not obey and agree with your view of God. There is no love in any of those ideas.
Mystic, you seem to ignore the fact that the Comforter was given to disciples/believers on the day of Pentecost. Meaning, they ALREADY believed in Jesus as the Christ, but something needed to be ADDED, not something they already had. That something was the Holy Ghost which you have never received by your own admission, nor did any other humans receive it apart from that specific action/work of the Spirit.
If you are a model builder and you have a particular pattern of model to build, how is it you think you can ignore the pattern, skip the order of the steps and throw out others not to your liking, and come out with the same model that was specified?
There is no love in the continual bashing of fundamentalists that some people on here show with their names of contempt, insinuations of mental instability, accusations of being possessed, ect, all the while quoting love scriptures and everyone is equal, ect., either.
As a spiritual principle, they are adding stripes in preparation of making them THEIR sacrifice, instead of making of THEMSELVES, a living sacrifice. Peace
The Holy Spirit influences ALL human beings because He is within our consciousness as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in love, NOT "written in ink" and stone in primitive fear of God. You are trapped in the primitive fear of God and human-created concepts of blood sacrifice to appease God and some kind of punishment for those who do not obey and agree with your view of God. There is no love in any of those ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Mystic, you seem to ignore the fact that the Comforter was given to disciples/believers on the day of Pentecost. Meaning, they ALREADY believed in Jesus as the Christ, but something needed to be ADDED, not something they already had. That something was the Holy Ghost which you have never received by your own admission, nor did any other humans receive it apart from that specific action/work of the Spirit.
We have agreed that we mean different things when we use the terms, Rbbi. God IS Spirit (Consciousness). God IS agape love. God is Holy. The terms all refer to God and His essence or character (Consciousness). Jesus brought God's Holy Spirit of Agape love (Consciousness) to His HUMAN consciousness. When He died, His HUMAN consciousness was "born again" (resurrected) as Spirit (Holy Spirit) in a spiritual body and eventually became available to us all on Pentecost as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." There is nothing magical or mysterious about it. We will all be "born again" as Spirit in a spiritual body as Jesus was.
Thanks to Jesus we are all connected to God's consciousness through Christ's consciousness (Comforter).Our species was failing to produce the kind of Spirits that could ever be united with God. We would have remained eternally separate from God until a HUMAN Spirit united with God in perfect resonance (IDENTITY). THAT failure is what Jesus SAVED us from by His perfect Human Spirit and it applies to our entire species. THAT is our salvation.
But NONE of that changes OUR requirement to produce Spirits that are at least in some harmonic resonance with Jesus' love for us all. Repentance is how we "relive" the dissonant (non-love) moments of our lives (sinful) and "tune our Spirit" to agape love. It is through our connection to Jesus that we achieve connection to God. Those who do not know Jesus or are blindly rebellious or evil in their Spirit are STILL eternal but they may NOT be fit to be in the presence of God because their states of mind are dissonant (non-love) and discordant (off-key). They will need to spend some time "refining their understanding" and reprocess any evil in their lives in light of the truth of God.
Quote:
If you are a model builder and you have a particular pattern of model to build, how is it you think you can ignore the pattern, skip the order of the steps and throw out others not to your liking, and come out with the same model that was specified?
It is not about model building. It is about refining the pure Spirit from the raw material of human consciousness (thinking and feeling) by refining out the dross (non-love). You can flatter yourself that you know the right pattern and rituals and spiritual Gifts that make you acceptable to God. I know we are all acceptable to God, but all the dross that we are will be refined out as we reap what we sow.
I usually am reluctant to discuss what my view of this after death "refinement" would be like. But there are so many here who seem not to understand how it could NOT be punishment . . . and still be negative consequences. It will NOT be pleasant to "relive" in their consciousness whatever unrepentant evil they wrought (surrounded by others of like mind) in the glare of God's pure love. They will have to spiritually feel for themselves all the negative consequences they inflicted on each and every human being who they affected by their evil . . . one by one. Some will have much to relive spiritually . . . others less so . . . but ALL will be permanently changed by it and come to understand Jesus and God intimately and the instructions to "love God and each other."
Malachi 3:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
Quote:
There is no love in the continual bashing of fundamentalists that some people on here show with their names of contempt, insinuations of mental instability, accusations of being possessed, ect, all the while quoting love scriptures and everyone is equal, ect., either.
As a spiritual principle, they are adding stripes in preparation of making them THEIR sacrifice, instead of making of THEMSELVES, a living sacrifice. Peace
You see it as a lack of love for fundamentalists. I see it as a lack of love and respect for the evil that their beliefs cause them to do to others in God's name. It is the lack of love, disdain, discrimination, treatment as abominations, etc. toward others in the name of God that is the target, NOT the fundamentalists, Rbbi. Any and all things you do without agape love toward others will cost you dearly no matter what reasons or justifications you think you have for them based on your interpretation of what God wants from us. You can simplify it, Rbbi. God wants love from us and love toward each other, period. Everything else is the result of human vanity and hubris writ large in their vain carnal minds pumped up by their egos. None of us is God and we can not judge anyone else as if we are. All we can do is love them and let go and let God.
We have agreed that we mean different things when we use the terms, Rbbi. God IS Spirit (Consciousness). God IS agape love. God is Holy. The terms all refer to God and His essence or character (Consciousness). Jesus brought God's Holy Spirit of Agape love (Consciousness) to His HUMAN consciousness. When He died, His HUMAN consciousness was "born again" (resurrected) as Spirit (Holy Spirit) in a spiritual body and eventually became available to us all on Pentecost as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." There is nothing magical or mysterious about it. We will all be "born again" as Spirit in a spiritual body as Jesus was.
Thanks to Jesus we are all connected to God's consciousness through Christ's consciousness (Comforter).Our species was failing to produce the kind of Spirits that could ever be united with God. We would have remained eternally separate from God until a HUMAN Spirit united with God in perfect resonance (IDENTITY). THAT failure is what Jesus SAVED us from by His perfect Human Spirit and it applies to our entire species. THAT is our salvation.
But NONE of that changes OUR requirement to produce Spirits that are at least in some harmonic resonance with Jesus' love for us all. Repentance is how we "relive" the dissonant (non-love) moments of our lives (sinful) and "tune our Spirit" to agape love. It is through our connection to Jesus that we achieve connection to God. Those who do not know Jesus or are blindly rebellious or evil in their Spirit are STILL eternal but they may NOT be fit to be in the presence of God because their states of mind are dissonant (non-love) and discordant (off-key). They will need to spend some time "refining their understanding" and reprocess any evil in their lives in light of the truth of God. It is not about model building. It is about refining the pure Spirit from the raw material of human consciousness (thinking and feeling) by refining out the dross (non-love). You can flatter yourself that you know the right pattern and rituals and spiritual Gifts that make you acceptable to God. I know we are all acceptable to God, but all the dross that we are will be refined out as we reap what we sow.
I usually am reluctant to discuss what my view of this after death "refinement" would be like. But there are so many here who seem not to understand how it could NOT be punishment . . . and still be negative consequences. It will NOT be pleasant to "relive" in their consciousness whatever unrepentant evil they wrought (surrounded by others of like mind) in the glare of God's pure love. They will have to spiritually feel for themselves all the negative consequences they inflicted on each and every human being who they affected by their evil . . . one by one. Some will have much to relive spiritually . . . others less so . . . but ALL will be permanently changed by it and come to understand Jesus and God intimately and the instructions to "love God and each other."
Malachi 3:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
You see it as a lack of love for fundamentalists. I see it as a lack of love and respect for the evil that their beliefs cause them to do to others in God's name. It is the lack of love, disdain, discrimination, treatment as abominations, etc. toward others in the name of God that is the target, NOT the fundamentalists, Rbbi. Any and all things you do without agape love toward others will cost you dearly no matter what reasons or justifications you think you have for them based on your interpretation of what God wants from us. You can simplify it, Rbbi. God wants love from us and love toward each other, period. Everything else is the result of human vanity and hubris writ large in their vain carnal minds pumped up by their egos. None of us is God and we can not judge anyone else as if we are. All we can do is love them and let go and let God.
But WHY do we mean different things in the first place, Mystic? WHY is the way He used it not sufficient for you? You clearly want to take the concept OF a Comforter you got out of there, so why is it you think you can logically distort of the meaning and origination point of what you have taken? Do you see my point? You are always talking about logic, well where is the logic in that?
I actually do agree with you a judgment after death in the sense of a refiner's fire, although it's not for the spirit that returns to the one who sent it, but for the soul of man. I've been there, I know it exists. That's a start, I suppose. Peace
But WHY do we mean different things in the first place, Mystic? WHY is the way He used it not sufficient for you? You clearly want to take the concept OF a Comforter you got out of there, so why is it you think you can logically distort of the meaning and origination point of what you have taken? Do you see my point? You are always talking about logic, well where is the logic in that?
You know my answer to that, Rbbi. I have been declaring it ever since I first came to the forum. The original concept of God was a wrathful one who had to be appeased. Our ignorant primitive ancestors came up with the idea of blood sacrifices of innocent animals to appease God because they would have been appeased by offerings of food. That mindset became ingrained, elaborated upon over centuries and was largely responsible for the treatment of Jesus by those who THOUGHT they knew God better than this upstart blasphemer who dared to call Himself the Son of God. Christ's message of a God who IS agape love was preposterous to them. The idea of mercy and compassion was antithetic to their eye for an eye mindset despite Christ's repeated attempts to correct their view of God and His motives.
You know my answer to that, Rbbi. I have been declaring it ever since I first came to the forum. The original concept of God was a wrathful one who had to be appeased. Our ignorant primitive ancestors came up with the idea of blood sacrifices of innocent animals to appease God because they would have been appeased by offerings of food. That mindset became ingrained, elaborated upon over centuries and was largely responsible for the treatment of Jesus by those who THOUGHT they knew God better than this upstart blasphemer who dared to call Himself the Son of God. Christ's message of a God who IS agape love was preposterous to them. The idea of mercy and compassion was antithetic to their eye for an eye mindset despite Christ's repeated attempts to correct their view of God and His motives.
You are promoting your own fantasy, and it is not even vaguely Christianity. Christianity teaches that Christians are uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and have a unique relationship with the Father as a result. Christianity is not and never has been a New Age feel-good religion. As I have stated before, the Jesus of the Bible is the only Jesus we have. That Jesus accepted the authority of the OT. You cannot simply reinvent him to suit your tastes and ignore 75% of what he is reported as having said in the only historical record we have. What you think you are worshipping is some sort of Cosmic Christ of your own invention, who might as well be called Ascended Master Ugumi because he is completely divorced from the historical Jesus. The arrogance exhibited here is breathtaking. When I see this sort of stuff masquerading as Christianity, I am reminded of the many last-days warnings the historical Jesus gave about those who would spread false doctrine in his name. Does it concern you at all that precisely no one in the vast community of Christian theologians, philosophers, historians and other scholars shares your understanding of Christianity? That might give me just a bit of pause. Instead of writing another 33,000 Internet posts, why not float your ideas past some serious Christian scholars and see what reaction you get?
You are promoting your own fantasy, and it is not even vaguely Christianity. Christianity teaches that Christians are uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and have a unique relationship with the Father as a result. Christianity is not and never has been a New Age feel-good religion. As I have stated before, the Jesus of the Bible is the only Jesus we have. That Jesus accepted the authority of the OT. You cannot simply reinvent him to suit your tastes and ignore 75% of what he is reported as having said in the only historical record we have. What you think you are worshipping is some sort of Cosmic Christ of your own invention, who might as well be called Ascended Master Ugumi because he is completely divorced from the historical Jesus. The arrogance exhibited here is breathtaking. When I see this sort of stuff masquerading as Christianity, I am reminded of the many last-days warnings the historical Jesus gave about those who would spread false doctrine in his name. Does it concern you at all that precisely no one in the vast community of Christian theologians, philosophers, historians and other scholars shares your understanding of Christianity? That might give me just a bit of pause. Instead of writing another 33,000 Internet posts, why not float your ideas past some serious Christian scholars and see what reaction you get?
So, over 1 in 4 Christians are Pentecostal or Charismatic, eh? Well, I presented the below video on the 'Speaking in Tongues' thread so I might as well do the same here. There are many similar videos on YouTube but this particular one is relatively short and captures both the 'tongue speaking' (in the longer version) and other alleged 'gifts of the Spirit' that the Pentecostal Church promotes and tells us that, without them, one is not saved. Be afraid - be very afraid - that over 1 in 4 Christians have converted to this form of 'Christianity'!
You know my answer to that, Rbbi. I have been declaring it ever since I first came to the forum. The original concept of God was a wrathful one who had to be appeased. Our ignorant primitive ancestors came up with the idea of blood sacrifices of innocent animals to appease God because they would have been appeased by offerings of food. That mindset became ingrained, elaborated upon over centuries and was largely responsible for the treatment of Jesus by those who THOUGHT they knew God better than this upstart blasphemer who dared to call Himself the Son of God. Christ's message of a God who IS agape love was preposterous to them. The idea of mercy and compassion was antithetic to their eye for an eye mindset despite Christ's repeated attempts to correct their view of God and His motives.
NO, Mystic, what you are saying here has NOTHING to do WHATSOEVER, with what I said about taking what was said of the Comforter and distorting it to mean what YOU say it means, and where it originates. Not a thing. It's just the same diatribe you always say, instead of answering the actual question.
My ancestors were neither ignorant or primitive. A list of Jews who have made outstanding contributions to science and math through the centuries, might help you alter your skewed, and dare I say it, racist, opinion. Please google some immediately. And say that there was no mercy or compassion to a Jew, in His Tanach, or in his life walk, and he'll likely think you're crazy at the very LEAST, just so you know how offensive and baseless that really is. Peace
We have agreed that we mean different things when we use the terms, Rbbi. God IS Spirit (Consciousness). God IS agape love. God is Holy. The terms all refer to God and His essence or character (Consciousness). Jesus brought God's Holy Spirit of Agape love (Consciousness) to His HUMAN consciousness. When He died, His HUMAN consciousness was "born again" (resurrected) as Spirit (Holy Spirit) in a spiritual body and eventually became available to us all on Pentecost as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." There is nothing magical or mysterious about it. We will all be "born again" as Spirit in a spiritual body as Jesus was.
Thanks to Jesus we are all connected to God's consciousness through Christ's consciousness (Comforter).Our species was failing to produce the kind of Spirits that could ever be united with God. We would have remained eternally separate from God until a HUMAN Spirit united with God in perfect resonance (IDENTITY). THAT failure is what Jesus SAVED us from by His perfect Human Spirit and it applies to our entire species. THAT is our salvation.
But NONE of that changes OUR requirement to produce Spirits that are at least in some harmonic resonance with Jesus' love for us all. Repentance is how we "relive" the dissonant (non-love) moments of our lives (sinful) and "tune our Spirit" to agape love. It is through our connection to Jesus that we achieve connection to God. Those who do not know Jesus or are blindly rebellious or evil in their Spirit are STILL eternal but they may NOT be fit to be in the presence of God because their states of mind are dissonant (non-love) and discordant (off-key). They will need to spend some time "refining their understanding" and reprocess any evil in their lives in light of the truth of God. It is not about model building. It is about refining the pure Spirit from the raw material of human consciousness (thinking and feeling) by refining out the dross (non-love). You can flatter yourself that you know the right pattern and rituals and spiritual Gifts that make you acceptable to God. I know we are all acceptable to God, but all the dross that we are will be refined out as we reap what we sow.
I usually am reluctant to discuss what my view of this after death "refinement" would be like. But there are so many here who seem not to understand how it could NOT be punishment . . . and still be negative consequences. It will NOT be pleasant to "relive" in their consciousness whatever unrepentant evil they wrought (surrounded by others of like mind) in the glare of God's pure love. They will have to spiritually feel for themselves all the negative consequences they inflicted on each and every human being who they affected by their evil . . . one by one. Some will have much to relive spiritually . . . others less so . . . but ALL will be permanently changed by it and come to understand Jesus and God intimately and the instructions to "love God and each other."
Malachi 3:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
You see it as a lack of love for fundamentalists. I see it as a lack of love and respect for the evil that their beliefs cause them to do to others in God's name. It is the lack of love, disdain, discrimination, treatment as abominations, etc. toward others in the name of God that is the target, NOT the fundamentalists, Rbbi. Any and all things you do without agape love toward others will cost you dearly no matter what reasons or justifications you think you have for them based on your interpretation of what God wants from us. You can simplify it, Rbbi. God wants love from us and love toward each other, period. Everything else is the result of human vanity and hubris writ large in their vain carnal minds pumped up by their egos. None of us is God and we can not judge anyone else as if we are. All we can do is love them and let go and let God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You know my answer to that, Rbbi. I have been declaring it ever since I first came to the forum. The original concept of God was a wrathful one who had to be appeased. Our ignorant primitive ancestors came up with the idea of blood sacrifices of innocent animals to appease God because they would have been appeased by offerings of food. That mindset became ingrained, elaborated upon over centuries and was largely responsible for the treatment of Jesus by those who THOUGHT they knew God better than this upstart blasphemer who dared to call Himself the Son of God. Christ's message of a God who IS agape love was preposterous to them. The idea of mercy and compassion was antithetic to their eye for an eye mindset despite Christ's repeated attempts to correct their view of God and His motives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte74
You are promoting your own fantasy, and it is not even vaguely Christianity. Christianity teaches that Christians are uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and have a unique relationship with the Father as a result. Christianity is not and never has been a New Age feel-good religion. As I have stated before, the Jesus of the Bible is the only Jesus we have. That Jesus accepted the authority of the OT. You cannot simply reinvent him to suit your tastes and ignore 75% of what he is reported as having said in the only historical record we have. What you think you are worshipping is some sort of Cosmic Christ of your own invention, who might as well be called Ascended Master Ugumi because he is completely divorced from the historical Jesus. The arrogance exhibited here is breathtaking. When I see this sort of stuff masquerading as Christianity, I am reminded of the many last-days warnings the historical Jesus gave about those who would spread false doctrine in his name. Does it concern you at all that precisely no one in the vast community of Christian theologians, philosophers, historians and other scholars shares your understanding of Christianity? That might give me just a bit of pause. Instead of writing another 33,000 Internet posts, why not float your ideas past some serious Christian scholars and see what reaction you get?
You think Christianity is some set of beliefs ABOUT Jesus and God. I do NOT. I believe Christianity is the set of attitudes and behaviors toward God and each other that are embodied in agape love. Those who follow Christ's instructions to love God and each other and repent when they don't are Christians, whatever they believe or do not believe about Him. I came to Christ from atheism experientially AFTER I encountered His beautiful consciousness in deep meditation. He is unconditionally accepting and loving and He erased my atheism instantly. Through study, I came to equate the descriptions of Jesus in the Bible with the consciousness I had encountered. My decades of study of science and the entire spiritual fossil record are what ultimately led me to interpret the Christ narrative more intelligently than it was presented in the Christian religions. The current Christian dogma is primitive, ancient, superstitious, magical and irrational, IMO. YMMV.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
