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OMG . . . shut down C-D . . . I agree with Finn and Cyber!!
But then, there are Jesus' own words where he teaches his disciples to ask God to, "lead us not into temtation". It takes some "interpreting" to reconcile those words with the other passages that have been quoted.
I agree with heartsong that calling it blasphemy is much too harsh. It is like the differnces between AN, UR & ET. Everyone can make a case for their beliefs based on the bible ... and everyone has to do "interpreting" of various passages that would seem to contradict their beliefs with just a straightforward reading. And each group thinks they are defending God's very nature when they do it.
blaspheme -a definition- 1. ( tr ) to show contempt or disrespect for (God, a divine being, or sacred things), esp in speech 2. ( intr ) to utter profanities, curses, or impious expressions [C14: from Late Latin blasphēmāre , from Greek blasphēmein from blasphēmos blasphemous ]
1.
to speak impiously or irreverently of (God or sacred things).
2. to speak evil of; slander; abuse. (Dictionary.com)
1. ( tr ) to show contempt or disrespect for (God, a divine being, or sacred things), esp in speech 2. ( intr ) to utter profanities, curses
To show contempt or disrespect for God, a divine being or sacred things, esp. in speech (World Dictionary)
Those who believe that these scriptures teach that all is out of God are not speaking irreverently of God, nor are we lacking reverence for God or showing contempt for God or disrespect for God. To the contrary, those believers (and there are many) who have this belief based on what we read in the scriptures, proclaim that God is the source, the originator and we seek to glorify Him, just as anyone else does. We are not showing contempt for God or irreverence towards Him. It is understood that evil and everything associated with it, is not of God's essence but are only tools that He uses for His purposes. No one understands all of His ways and I believe that God is good, Holy, Righteous, and Sinless. He makes no mistakes.
Having a different understanding on this does not mean that someone is blaspheming God.
The above scriptures state that all is out of God. This does not mean that God Himself is evil or that He sins. Evil is a temporary tool but it is not of God's essence. He contrasts His goodness with evil which is not of His essence. A writer may use the element evil in a story or play, and may also create someone who is a murderer in the script. This does not mean that the writer is evil or a murderer.
1 John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
The lust of the flesh, the pride of life, the lust of the eyes are not what God is all about. God is good and holy, but He uses these things to teach this about Himself to mankind. When God becomes all in all, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life will no longer exist because God will fill all, and destroy all sin and evil. God bless.
Romans 11:36
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. (Young's Literal)
what may be good for u may be terrible for me.. god knows each of us.. he knows our hearts he knows waht we need long before we do.
do we trust him enough to know that where we are right now is where we are meant to be.. the lessons we need to learn are rooted in the situations we face today and are what will prepare us for the lessons we need to learn tomorrow.. life is a beautiful journey of growth and learning about who we are and our beauty ..we are made in his image.....would we stop complaining and debating and start trusting and praising teh most high knowing that we will get to that place of rest and peace that we know in our heart exists?
my lessons may be very different to yours ,, it doesnt mean that u are wrong and i am right,, it jsut means we have differnt things to learn possibly because we have different roles to play or jobs to do for the Most high one
Let us embrace our differnces and give thanks for them.. if we were all the same what a boring place this would be.
I believe that these scriptures are related to how all things have a purpose in God's plan.
1 Corinthians 5
1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 [a]You have become [b]arrogant and [c]have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and [d]I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [e]Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12
7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to [b]torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast [c]about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with [d]insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong."
what may be good for u may be terrible for me.. god knows each of us.. he knows our hearts he knows waht we need long before we do.
do we trust him enough to know that where we are right now is where we are meant to be.. the lessons we need to learn are rooted in the situations we face today and are what will prepare us for the lessons we need to learn tomorrow.. life is a beautiful journey of growth and learning about who we are and our beauty ..we are made in his image.....would we stop complaining and debating and start trusting and praising teh most high knowing that we will get to that place of rest and peace that we know in our heart exists?
my lessons may be very different to yours ,, it doesnt mean that u are wrong and i am right,, it jsut means we have differnt things to learn possibly because we have different roles to play or jobs to do for the Most high one
Let us embrace our differnces and give thanks for them.. if we were all the same what a boring place this would be
These are very good points. Thank you for sharing. God bless.
1 John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Obviously not everything comes from the Father through Christ.
Not directly so, no. However, ask yourself: Who created the world of which these things come? Ultimately, everything, "all things" as scripture says, can trace it's existence, or source, back to God.
For example: God created beings (angels and humans) that could, or have the propensity and ability, to sin. Those created beings become sins primary source. But even that which sins will find it's own source and power to sin within the boundaries that have been established and created by God for it to do so. So even in that sense, "all things" point back to God. I really do not see how you can escape that fact.
And, Pnuema, God brought the devil into existence. Jesus said that he was a murderer or a man killer from the beginning-the beginning of what someone might argue. Irregardless, the thing is God brought him into existence didn't He and if someone believes that God sees beginning to end, then He knew what was going to happen.
No God did not bring the Satan into existence. Satan or the adversary created himself after the same fashion man became a sinner. God did not create man a sinner man became a sinner by his own disobedience. In like manner the evil one became the adversary or Satan.
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Do we know what good is without the contrast of evil? One of the trees that God caused to grow in the garden was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were both a part of the same tree.
The law is the tree of knowledge of Good and evil sis it is a spiritual tree ordained unto life.
The law said do not eat or you will die. Adam ate Adam died.
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Sorry, I do not see this any other way in light of what the scriptures say to me:
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil. (NAS)
The Septuagint does not have it that way it reads
The fear of the Lord is instruction and wisdom; and the highest honour will correspond therewith. All the works of the humble man are manifest with God; but the ungodly shall perish in an evil day.
Young's literal has it
All things hath Jehovah wrought for Himself, And also the wicked [worketh] for a day of evil.
Quote:
Romans 11:36
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (NAS)
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. (Young's Literal)
Sis scripture tell us the every thing God created was very good. Is evil good? Are we not warned against saying evil is good and good is evil?
Those scriptures are talking about everything that is good was made of God through Christ.
They are not talking about sin and evil which are not of God.
Every good and perfect gift comes form above sis not every gift just the good and perfect gifts.
It isn't about God tempting people to sin. He wants us to turn away from sin, to hate sin, to strive for that which is good and holy. But sin has it's purpose until God becomes all in all. God did create that which tempts and I believe for a purpose. Jesus was sent into the wilderness by God's Holy Spirit to be tempted and He came out victorious. We are to be overcomers also. How can we become overcomers without something to overcome? And we would not know God as a Savior without having become estranged from Him, or know the depth and nature of His love for us without this experience. We would not know to choose good over evil without the existence of evil. How do we learn to develop things like agape love, compassion, empathy, perserverance, endurance, trust in God even in all situations, forgiveness without situations which call for development of this?
"Consider it all joy my brethren when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result/work, that you may be perfect/mature and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1)
God bless.
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It isn't about God tempting people to sin. He wants us to turn away from sin, to hate sin, to strive for that which is good and holy.
Huh? do you not believe God micro managed us to sin? then how can you say He wants us to turn away from sin?
Is not us sinning Gods will according to your belief?
As far as making this question a poll, I think the word blasphemy is too emotionally charged for me to participate. I think the belief is a misunderstanding. I think the wording needs to be more precise, by saying, "Is God pleased with sin and suffering?" To which I would answer: NO he is not. But he permits it for a purpose. The scriptures clearly teach that God has bound all people over to disobedience. Of course that sounds odd - makes it sounds like God wants to make people sin. But that is not the case. Yet God knows we will all sin because we are born into it by nature.
Well sis do you not believe that an eternal hell is blaspheme? Is it also not just a misunderstanding of the scriptures? I know that when the word is used closer to home so to speak it seems harsh to those who live close by, but it is no more harsh then for others to say eternal torment is blaspheme.
Sis I did not start this thread in order to be mean or hurt anyone's feelings I started it so that those who believe after this fashion would take a hard look at what they believe.
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This thinking that God has evil desires, for instance the teaching that he is so angry he made an eternal hell - to me that is blasphemy because it is a character assassination. It is NOT a character assassination to say God allows us to taste death and walk in darkness so that we may understand his goodness and mercy.
Yet if God micro managed us to walk in sin, which is far away from His character, is that not character assignation of His character.
This is what I keep hearing from those who believe after this fashion.
In order for God to make us into His image through Christ God first had to make us a sinner.
Yet Jesus who was made just like we were did not have to become a sinner in order to be the image of God.
Is Adam are example or is Christ?
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