Is this belief blaspheme? (pagan, blessings, believe, scriptures)

[legoman]

Originally Posted by pneuma

All things are possible with God. Does this mean if is possible that God can lie?

Some here say God designed evil so we would know good, yet if all things are possible with God surely He could cause us to know good without experiencing evil.

You are asking the illogical here.

Do you think God can make 2+2=5?

If He cannot, does that mean He is not all-powerful?

Personally I believe God CANNOT make 2+2=5. That would be turning a lie into the truth. Yet I still understand that He is all-powerful within the confines of TRUTH.

This is like asking can God make a rock so big that even He cannot lift it. The answer is NO, God cannot. The question itself is a logical fallacy.

So in the same manner, you ask "surely He could cause us to know good without experiencing evil"... and the answer is NO.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to fully understand LOVE without also understanding evil.

The very definition of LOVE necessitates an understanding of evil:
- love does not delight in evil
- love forgives others of the evil they have done
- love protects others from evil

If we didn't know what evil is, we wouldn't understand how to protect others from it, forgive others of it, nor how to NOT delight in it, AND THEREFORE WE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND LOVE.

The very understanding of LOVE and GOODNESS is predicated on also understanding evil.

[pneuma]

This is foolishness pneuma. You cannot separate "nature" from God as if "nature" or "natural causes" have nothing to do with God.

Who designed nature? Who designed the earth? Did God not realize out of the earth that HE designed would come earthquakes and tsunamis and all manner of destruction?


I can quote scripture as well where God unleashes earthquakes, floods, wind, etc.

Read this link, about half-way to two-thirds down is a good list of what God causes:

Well that is one part of the problem Lego, you guys always point to what another man has said, teaching what you have been taught. Everyone of those point your writer spoke of comes from the OT, written by those under a vail, they did not know God and attributed all things to God. This is no different then what the pagans did with their Idol worship, their idols did all things to. If an earthquake happened it was because one of their idols caused it.

However God is not like the idols of men, God is love and love worketh no evil, and love thinketh no evil.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by legoman

Read this link, about half-way to two-thirds down is a good list of what God causes:

LAKE OF FIRE - Part 15-C

Wow, 43 pages and still going strong...Obviously there is a lot of diverse opinions still being expressed here .

I liked L. Ray Smith's quote in the link you provided:

"Ignorantly assuming that one has a “free will” is a sin for which God can grant repentance [NOW]. But is “Arrogantly” clinging to this idol of the heart after God has shown it to you in His Word is BLASPHEMY, which assuredly will be punished [LATER]!"

Smith takes the entire OP's premise, and then flips it on it's head, as Smith so often does using his unique style...lol

Many have undoubtedly read AW Pink's "Sovereignty of God" that presents the Reformed Faith's point of view with regards to much of what is being expressed here, both pros and cons on the subject. Here it is in PDF format for those who have not read it in a while. I don't endorse all of Pink's conclusions but he does try and present his thoughts with as much clarity as possible using as much scripture as he can find. Anyway, enjoy!

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pink/sovereignty.pdf

[pneuma]

What are the facts? As I see it:

1. God created the world and the people in it
2. There are earthquakes in the world
3. The people in the world are sinners

Do we agree here?

4. God knew all this would happen and still went ahead with the creation AS IS

No we do not agree, because you have to put 4 with 1,2 and 3. I could say I agree with 1,2 and 3 but it would be under a different understanding, so no I do not agree with you.

And if God knew before hand what everyone would do, why does He say what the Israelites did NEVER entered His mind?

This is where I'm pretty sure you disagree but I don't think Mystic or others do (correct me if I'm wrong).


Given this, if #4 is true, this implies intent and purpose for what we see. There is no other conclusion.

This does not mean God WANTS evil to happen. But it means He has a purpose for it to achieve some goal.

And that is where I see double speak. God does NOT want evil to happen, but has a purpose for it. It makes no sense, for if God has a purpose for evil things to happen then God wants evil things to happen.

Brother Love does not work that way. Do you purposely hurt your loved ones?(and I am not talking about a spanking, I am talking about murdering them, raping them, etc) If not why do you believe the one who is love would purposely hurt us?

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by pneuma

And if God knew before hand what everyone would do, why does He say what the Israelites did NEVER entered His mind?

What exactly are you referring to that Israel did?

[pneuma]

You are asking the illogical here.

Do you think God can make 2+2=5?

If He cannot, does that mean He is not all-powerful?

Personally I believe God CANNOT make 2+2=5. That would be turning a lie into the truth. Yet I still understand that He is all-powerful within the confines of TRUTH.


This is like asking can God make a rock so big that even He cannot lift it. The answer is NO, God cannot. The question itself is a logical fallacy.

You missed the point Lego, some here use all as though it is always all. Even though I have pointed out that all that God made was good they still insist that all, which includes evil is of God.

So in the same manner, you ask "surely He could cause us to know good without experiencing evil"... and the answer is NO.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to fully understand LOVE without also understanding evil.

What is not possible with man is possible with God. Just because you cannot understand how one can understand love without understanding evil does not mean one cannot understand love without evil.

Again do you do that which is evil to your loved ones?

The very definition of LOVE necessitates an understanding of evil:
- love does not delight in evil
- love forgives others of the evil they have done
- love protects others from evil

If we didn't know what evil is, we wouldn't understand how to protect others from it, forgive others of it, nor how to NOT delight in it, AND THEREFORE WE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND LOVE.

The very understanding of LOVE and GOODNESS is predicated on also understanding evil.

Sorry but one does not have to understand evil to understand love. What! are we suppose to hate our children first so that they can understand that we really love them? Come on, love produces love, hate produces hate, hate does not produce love.

It simply boggles my mind the reasoning some of you guys put forth.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

What exactly are you referring to that Israel did?

Burning their children in the fire to Moloch

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Well that is one part of the problem Lego, you guys always point to what another man has said, teaching what you have been taught. Everyone of those point your writer spoke of comes from the OT, written by those under a vail, they did not know God and attributed all things to God. This is no different then what the pagans did with their Idol worship, their idols did all things to. If an earthquake happened it was because one of their idols caused it.

However God is not like the idols of men, God is love and love worketh no evil, and love thinketh no evil.

Amen, pneuma . . . this is too important to leave in the tiny font you used. Lego and others believe the ancient ignorant interpretations and superstitious understanding of God found in the OT. There is no reasoning with such unreasoning credulity and acceptance of ignorance as a sign of faith.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Amen, pneuma . . . this is too important to leave in the tiny font you used. Lego and others believe the ancient ignorant interpretations and superstitious understanding of God found in the OT. There is no reasoning with such unreasoning credulity and acceptance of ignorance as a sign of faith.

And that is the reason I keep pointing them to Christ, His view on the Father is the only correct view, yet people still want to tabernacle with Moses and Eli and refuse to only HEAR HIM.

I AM THE WAY,THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Burning their children in the fire to Moloch

Is this the scripture that you're referring to?

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

In any event, the idea is that God did not command His people (Judah) to do such a sin, or partake in anyway of such sinful acts (murder of infants to pagan gods). And such an idea as that, or to command Judah to do such abominable acts, had never entered God's heart or mind. That is what the text is saying.

However, that text does not say God did not know what sins were taking place in the valley of Hinnom.