Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Is this belief blaspheme?
Yes 12 75.00%
No 4 25.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2012, 12:39 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,922,753 times
Reputation: 336

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
No all things cannot directly trace its existance back to God.
Scripture completely disagrees with your assessments...

I'm currious though....When you read the book of Job, or for that matter much of the OT, how do you understand Satan having been given authority, or power from God, to kill Job's family and livestock?

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Am I to understand you, that none of scripture is to be understood as it was written?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-08-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,329,176 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Scripture completely disagrees with your assessments...


Does it? Then explain why God said satan sowed the tares and sin is of the devil.

Quote:
I'm currious though....When you read the book of Job, or for that matter much of the OT, how do you understand Satan having been given authority, or power from God, to kill Job's family and livestock?

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Am I to understand you, that none of scripture is to be understood as it was written?


God gave man dominion, Satan usurped mans dominion. He is the god of this world.

He rules in this earth and God was confirming his rule when he said all that he hath is in they power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 01:19 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
I'm currious though....When you read the book of Job, or for that matter much of the OT, how do you understand Satan having been given authority, or power from God, to kill Job's family and livestock?

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Agree, AlabamaStorm. Job knew who the originator of all is. Satan was only able to do what God allowed or permitted him to do and has no power outside of what God gives him. Job did not converse with satan who caused the affliction, but knew who was in charge.


Job 1:20And Job riseth, and rendeth his robe, and shaveth his head, and falleth to the earth, and doth obeisance,

21and he saith, `Naked came I forth from the womb of my mother, and naked I turn back thither: Jehovah hath given and Jehovah hath taken: let the name of Jehovah be blessed.' 22In all this Job hath not sinned, nor given folly to God. (YLT)

God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 02:00 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,922,753 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post

Does it? Then explain why God said satan sowed the tares and sin is of the devil.
Well, because Satan did. Satan is the one who did, under the authority of God.

Quote:
God gave man dominion, Satan usurped mans dominion. He is the god of this world.
I'm glad you used a little "g" there. Nevertheless, God still rules with power and authority over all.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD , is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD , and thou art exalted as head above all.

Quote:
He rules in this earth and God was confirming his rule when he said all that he hath is in they power.
God wasn't "confirming" anything. Not only does God permit Satan to accomplish His counsel, He also tells Satan what not to do:

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Where is Satan's authority to do otherwise? There is none. Satan simply does what God commands, or permits, to be done. It's evident here that our beliefs are quite different. My God rules from the heavens and does whatever He pleases:

Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Does yours?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
Reputation: 1504
Yes. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Where is Satan's authority to do otherwise? There is none. Satan simply does what God commands, or permits, to be done.

So, you believe God commands Satan to do evil?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 04:07 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,922,753 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
So, you believe God commands Satan to do evil?
In the book of Job, God permits (ie: all that he hath is in thy power) Satan to do evil, and commands (ie: put not forth thine hand) what he can not do.

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

With regards to the lying spirits, God commands it to be done:

2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

At least that is what the text says.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 04:31 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,922,753 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
So, you believe God commands Satan to do evil?
Actually, God doesn't need Satan or even lying spirits to do what His counsel determines should be done. God performs acts of judgment for whatever purposes He deems fit, as scripture states here:

Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
In the book of Job, God permits (ie: all that he hath is in thy power) Satan to do evil, and commands (ie: put not forth thine hand) what he can not do.

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

With regards to the lying spirits, God commands it to be done:

2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

At least that is what the text says.
OK, so God does not command Satan to do evil ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2012, 05:02 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,922,753 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
OK, so God does not command Satan to do evil ?
Not in the passage I quoted from Job. You can read it, what does it say in Job?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top