How Does Protestantism Differ From Catholicism? (Epistles, pray, Holy Spirit, Christ)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What of those who follow Christ but do not identify as Catholic or Protestant? I belong in the neither category.
I don't identify with either. If you follow the commands and examples given to us in the NT, I don't think you have a thing to worry about. But when you put the traditions (doctrines of men) above the word of God, then you're in big trouble. We are warned to not add or take away from God's word. We are also told to not preach any other gospel.
Julian658;22579120]John 13:20 - Jesus says, "he who receives anyone who I send, receives Me." He who receives the apostles, receives Christ Himself. He who rejects the apostles and their successors, rejects Christ.
Jesus is simply saying, "If anyone accepts someone who I send, he is accepting Me too. The person who accepts me is accepting the ONE who sent me.
Jesus is not talking about just the apostles here. He is talking about ALL OF US, you me, all disciples of Jesus. When we go out and teach the gospel to others, and someone accepts us, they also are accepting Jesus. And the person who accepts Jesus, also accepts God. This has nothing whatsoever to do with apostolic succession.
You are trying to make this scripture say something it does not say. ANYONE includes everybody who preaches the gospel. This verse is not restricted to apostles only.
Quote:
Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority.
With all due respect my friend, you have missed a very important point in your "apostolic succession" doctrine. In order for the apostles to choose a successor for Judas, that person needed to meet certain requirements. He needed to have accompanied all of the apostles the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among them starting from the baptism of John to the day He ascended. Judas' successor needed to be a witness with the rest of the apostles of His resurrection.
No one today meets these qualifications. There are no apostles today. Popes never existed in the Bible, nor have they ever existed in the Lord's church. Only the catholic denomination makes such a claim. Popes were the inventions (traditions, doctrines) of men. Never was the Lord's church organized to have ONE administrative head. Jesus is the only head of the church, the one He purchased with His blood.
Acts 1 21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
Quote:
Acts 1:22 - literally, "one must be ordained" to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ's authority.
I do not see the word "ordained" in this scripture. This is something YOU have added. What I do see is a very simple casting of lots, and prayer to God for guidance in choosing the right man to replace Judas.
Quote:
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
Again, no such word "ordination" can be found in this scripture. These seven men were simply "appointed" by the apostles. Only the apostles had the power to lay on hands, and it was for the purpose of conveying spiritual gifts. We can see the evidence of these spiritual gifts in verse 8. "And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people." The ability to convey spiritual gifts by the laying on of the apostles' hands ended with the death of the last apostle, John.
3 Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business; 4 but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch, 6 whom they set before the apostles; and when they had prayed, they laid hands on them.
To be "Protestant" is to believe that the Apostles and Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity were misguided. "Protestantism" crumbles with any semi-serious study of history and is the most illogical argument in the whole of human history. And of course the grand irony is that without the Catholic Church there would not be a Bible. All facts lost on "Protestants."
Actually, the Lord's church has always prevailed, since its inception, as promised by Jesus. "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The real departure from the original church in the New Testament occurred about 300 years after Jesus had established His church on the day of Pentecost. One of the first departures happened at the Council of Nicea when local area elders met with Roman officials and decided to give the Lord's church an unscriptural name, "catholic." Up until this point, the Lord's church had always been named in association with Christ who was the head of the church. In the New Testament, the congregations of the Lord's church had been known as churches of Christ, churches of God, the Bride of Christ, the body of Christ. At the Council of Nicea, it was also decided to change the organization of the Lord's church. Up to this point, each congregation was headed by a plurality of elders along with deacons. You can read about them and their qualifications in Timothy and Titus. At the Council of Nicea, church organization was changed to pattern itself after the Roman government: Emperor, Advisers, Governors; Pope, Cardinals, Bishops. This was a major departure from the Lord's church.
The catholic denomination is not the church that Jesus built. It elevates the doctrines of men above the word of God.
God promised that He would always preserve His word. Although I am not a protestant, I thank God everyday for Martin Luther and the other reformers who brought the Bible back to light (ever hear of the dark ages?), because for a thousand years, it was kept hidden by the catholics.
God knows that whomever prays to Mary is also praying to him.
Prayer is for the benefit of the person doing the prayer. God does not prayer.
God is able to hear the prayers to Virgin Mary because God is omnipotent.
God is not jealous and does not get offended if someone prays to the mother of Jesus.
The only logical reason Protestants have for excluding Virgin Mary in their theology is to further differentiate themselves from Catholics and to avoid tradition and rites. Otherwise, there is no logical theological reason to have such disdain for Virgin Mary.
Otherwise you are presenting God as petty and jealous and those qualities are highly un-Godly.
Furthermore putting down Catholics for honoring Virgin Mary has become pejorative and that in itself is not Christian.
God bless you too
Julian
Julian my friend,
God wants us to pray to Him not for Him. You are right. He doesn't need our prayers, but He wants us to pray to Him (not Mary) without ceasing.
Please provide some scriptural proof for your assertion, "God knows that whomever prays to Mary is also praying to him." How, pray tell, do you know this? Do you know the mind of God?
I'm sure God knows when someone prays to Mary or Allah, or saints, or some other false god. You're right. God knows everything.
Please do not misunderstand me. I am not putting Mary, the mother of Jesus, down in any way, shape or form. But I will not worship her, or pray to her. Jesus is the one and only mediator between man and God. It is through His name we pray. It is through Him and Him alone that we approach the throne of God. Can you show even one scripture that says we should pray through Mary? Can you show one example in the entire New Testament where someone prays to Mary?
You made a statement that is so contradictory to the Bible, it makes me wonder, with all due respect, if you've even read the Old Testament. You said: "God is not jealous and does not get offended if someone prays to the mother of Jesus."
Can you say such a thing after reading the following scriptures?
[SIZE=2](Exodus 20:1-5)And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;[/SIZE]
(Exodus 34:14) For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous,is a jealous God:
(Deuteronomy 4:23-24) Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. 24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God
(Deuteronomy 6:15) For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
Please provide some scriptural proof for your assertion, "God knows that whomever prays to Mary is also praying to him." How, pray tell, do you know this? Do you know the mind of God?
Here is my answer: Obviously this is all logical, but it is found in the Bible:
Quote:
God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
I'm sure God knows when someone prays to Mary or Allah, or saints, or some other false god. You're right. God knows everything.
God is so great that there is salvation for Jews and Muslims.
Please do not misunderstand me. I am not putting Mary, the mother of Jesus, down in any way, shape or form. But I will not worship her, or pray to her. Can you show one example in the entire New Testament where someone prays to Mary? Here it is:
[SIZE=+2] When Jesus saw his mother,
and the disciple whom he loved standing near,
he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!"
And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Gospel of John 19:26-27 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] In this passage from John's Gospel, Jesus Christ dying on the Cross tells "the disciple" to behold his Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
[/SIZE]
You made a statement that is so contradictory to the Bible, it makes me wonder, with all due respect, if you've even read the Old Testament. You said: "God is not jealous and does not get offended if someone prays to the mother of Jesus."
I give you a lot of credit for pointing out that the Bible says God is jealous. I for one do not believe God is jealous unless i take those words literally.
You may ask: How do I know this is allegoric?
Quote:
Or the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.
My God would never harm anyone. That is how I know is allegoric. Furthermore, if you look up the meaning of the word you know there is no way that God is jealous.
jeal·ous·y
[jel-uh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural -ous·ies for 4. 1. jealous resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.
2. mental uneasiness from suspicion or fear of rivalry, unfaithfulness, etc., as in love or aims.
3. vigilance in maintaining or guarding something.
God knows that whomever prays to Mary is also praying to him.
Prayer is for the benefit of the person doing the prayer. God does not prayer.
God is able to hear the prayers to Virgin Mary because God is omnipotent.
God is not jealous and does not get offended if someone prays to the mother of Jesus.
The only logical reason Protestants have for excluding Virgin Mary in their theology is to further differentiate themselves from Catholics and to avoid tradition and rites. Otherwise, there is no logical theological reason to have such disdain for Virgin Mary.
Otherwise you are presenting God as petty and jealous and those qualities are highly un-Godly.
Furthermore putting down Catholics for honoring Virgin Mary has become pejorative and that in itself is not Christian.
God bless you too
Julian
I do not content with the Catholic per say but against wrong doctrine even as Jesus did not condemn the person but condemned wrong doctrine. I have many friends who are Catholic but avoid debate when not wanted as some can take it personally rather than understanding it is only a discussion of doctrine.
Here are some things to consider.
There is only one mediator because, JN 14:6 "Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man come unto the Father, but by me."
Jesus said call no man Teacher or a spiritual Father because: JN 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
Jesus prays us in to relationship to God and others who believe because: JN 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which You have given me; for they are Yours."
God is a jealous God for his people and for His Holy name sake guards we who believe, His name and Truth against all intruders because: "EX 20:4 You shall not make unto you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. EX 20:5 You shalt not bow down yourself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord your God am a jealous God," Jealous here does not mean envy, it means: Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Onlinejealous
a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness
JN 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." Why? Because one is seeking, howbeit often times in ignorance, of robbing God of His Glory in the finished work of salvation. It is finished and complete now for those who receive and therefore no need of a purgatory which doctrine only denies the finished work of Christ by implying that you can get right with God after death when in fact He has made salvation already available in full measure and so simple to be had. As simple as it is written, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." and that "to the uttermost." No works of ritual are needed that can add to the finished work of Christ. It is so pure and simple that even a fool can find the Highway of the Lord because with God all things are possible.
You can be sure that only God can answer prayer if we come through Jesus who alone payed the price for our redemption. Not me, you, Mary are any other creature in all creation or in Heaven can bring us to God.
To visit a Library, the OP. You had better do what your name says and do some reading. Catholics "unusual" in the USA. Its the largest branch of Christianity in the USA. "Martin Luther said we should work to please God???" If this is what you learned in school, you need to completely reexamine everything they taught you because your original post is 100% wrong.
Actually, the Lord's church has always prevailed, since its inception, as promised by Jesus. "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The real departure from the original church in the New Testament occurred about 300 years after Jesus had established His church on the day of Pentecost. One of the first departures happened at the Council of Nicea when local area elders met with Roman officials and decided to give the Lord's church an unscriptural name, "catholic." Up until this point, the Lord's church had always been named in association with Christ who was the head of the church. In the New Testament, the congregations of the Lord's church had been known as churches of Christ, churches of God, the Bride of Christ, the body of Christ. At the Council of Nicea, it was also decided to change the organization of the Lord's church. Up to this point, each congregation was headed by a plurality of elders along with deacons. You can read about them and their qualifications in Timothy and Titus. At the Council of Nicea, church organization was changed to pattern itself after the Roman government: Emperor, Advisers, Governors; Pope, Cardinals, Bishops. This was a major departure from the Lord's church.
The catholic denomination is not the church that Jesus built. It elevates the doctrines of men above the word of God.
God promised that He would always preserve His word. Although I am not a protestant, I thank God everyday for Martin Luther and the other reformers who brought the Bible back to light (ever hear of the dark ages?), because for a thousand years, it was kept hidden by the catholics.
Blessings,
Katie
Nice historical revision there, completely devoid of any historical facts. There is no historical evidence whatsoever for what you just posted. Thanks to Martin Luther you have 33,000+ "Protestant" denominations, each with their own funny beliefs, none with any sciptural authority.
The catholic denomination is not the church that Jesus built. It elevates the doctrines of men above the word of God.
Katie
There is not a single Catholic teaching that conflicts with the Bible.
How did those first generation Christians (i.e. the first Catholics) worship without a Bible?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
