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I believe that unending punishment does not reflect agape love which always does what is best for the one who is loved. God overcomes evil with good. Punishment ends when its purpose is accomplished. One day every knee will bow in adoration and confess, proclaim, and swear allegiance to Him. It was His good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. God bless.
There are many opinions, but only one truth prevails. We'd like to think all types of things, but we have to meet God where he's at in what he says not hanging on to our own delusions to our own destruction.
He's revealed himself in his Word. It says Damnation is eternal with "no hope".
God's perfect agape love was demonstrated on that Cross when he allowed his fallen creatures hammer nails into his hands and feet while mocking him, etc..
We have the opportunity now to choose him. He makes it clear he's calling out to all of us.
It doesn't work out well for those rejecting their Maker-Redeemer Messiah. That's what the Scriptures declare.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
No hope is something we can't fathom. That's what the message says. As God's servants, we have to bear the news and help pull people to the Savior Messiah Lord Jesus.
Hi, many Christians believe that this is a parable that Jesus spoke and is symbolic in nature and that it is not a literal presentation of what happens in the after life. If it is, it conflicts with the many scriptures which speak of the dead as being dead or asleep. For example if it is to be taken literally,
How could a drop of water cool the tongue of a spirit in in the spirit world?
Do spirits have eyes, tongues, and fingers?
How would one drop of water benefit someone who is supposedly in eternal flame?
Will all believers go to Abraham’s bosom upon their death?
Are all believers who have died at Abraham's bosom now?
If Abraham and the Lazarus were across the wide gulf that no one could cross how were they able to carry on a conversation with the rich man?
Does this mean that the saved people in heaven will be able to see and hold conversations with those who are tormented in hell for all of eternity?
How could the rich man be speaking at all if he is in a literal flame of fire?
Many Christians believe that this story existed many years before Jesus taught it and it is believed to be contained in a group of writings called Gemara Babylonicum which contained ideas that the Jewish people collected from pagan influences or that it is a story that existed from the Babylonian captivity. The audience that Jesus spoke to would have been very familiar with this story and it is believed that he used this familiar story to teach them about the lost sons of Abraham or the Gentiles and the religious leaders, for example.
Notes:
"It may be proper to remark in this place, that this story was not original with the Saviour, but was simply used by him to illustrate his subject. The story was probably familiar to his hearers and our Saviour for that reason took occasion to make a practical application of it. In "Paige's Selections," we find the following from Dr. Whitby--"That this is a parable, and not a real history of what was actually done, is evident (1) Because we find this very parable in the Gemara Babylonicum whence it is cited by Mr. Sheringham, in the preface to his Joma. (2) From the circumstances of it, viz. The rich man's lifting up his eyes in hell, and seeing Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, his discourse with Abraham, his complaint of being tormented with flames, and his desire that Lazarus might be sent to cool his tongue; and if all this be confessedly parable, why should the rest, which is the very parable in the Gemara, be accounted history!"--end footnote) Annot in loc."
Tentmaker
I do believe that many will experience hell (torment, pain) but I don't believe that it is everlasting or that this is a place of everlasting torment. I believe that it will result in the eventual restoration, reconstitution of all to God. God bless.
I believe that unending punishment does not reflect agape love which always does what is best for the one who is loved. God overcomes evil with good. Punishment ends when its purpose is accomplished. One day every knee will bow in adoration and confess, proclaim, and swear allegiance to Him. It was His good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. God bless.
There are many opinions, but only one truth prevails. We'd like to think all types of things, but we have to meet God where he's at in what he says not hanging on to our own delusions to our own destruction.
He's revealed himself in his Word. It says Damnation is eternal with "no hope".
God's perfect agape love was demonstrated on that Cross when he allowed his fallen creatures hammer nails into his hands and feet while mocking him, etc..
We have the opportunity now to choose him. He makes it clear he's calling out to all of us.
It doesn't work out well for those rejecting their Maker-Redeemer Messiah. That's what the Scriptures declare.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
No hope is something we can't fathom. That's what the message says. As God's servants, we have to bear the news and help pull people to the Savior Messiah Lord Jesus.
You can continue to worship the GodFather . . . I will love God the Father and His Son Jesus as Christ commanded ("Our Father who art in Heaven . . .") and I will love all my brothers and sisters too. God is love and we are part of Him when we love, period. All else is human hubris and vanity.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 02-02-2012 at 07:05 PM..
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope
hope=elpis=desire of some expectation
Many have nothing to look forward to when they die. This why they sorrow. They do not know of the life to come. They do not know that Jesus has abolished death. Death is the end for them, but not for believers. We know that death is not the end and so we have this expectation. Eventually all of creation will experience deliverance and be changed into the glory of the freedom of the children of God. (Romans 8) What a wonderful day that will be.
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Text with context. For those that don't believe that Jesus died and rose again there is no hope it says.
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Amen. We believers believe that Jesus died and rose again and that we too will rise again. Death is not the end, we know. Others sorrow because they do not have this hope, (elpis) -expectation. They don't have the faith that we have. Why do you think that they sorrowed?
Eventually all of creation will experience deliverance and be changed into the glory of the freedom of the children of God. (Romans 8) What a wonderful day that will be.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-02-2012 at 07:29 PM..
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