Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-21-2012, 04:36 PM
 
661 posts, read 619,224 times
Reputation: 66

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cxjonz View Post
Woman I've said to you very plainly that you will not escape from serving the penalty of eternal death unless you confess directly to God that you are truly sorry Jesus' life was lost by bloodshed when he was crucified and be baptized into this WAY. There is no other way the Lord's command given through the apostles can be obeyed. Since you say that you are pregnant I am sure that you will not forgive a single person of a mob who has taken that child's life by bloodshed who does not confess to you that they are sorry. Would you?
Can we please return to the topic of this thread? Thanks.

 
Old 01-22-2012, 05:32 AM
 
9,661 posts, read 1,181,092 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Loving God and each other is the ONLY way we are justified and sanctified under the grace (Love) of Christ. It attunes us to His perfect consciousness which connects us to God.
Loving God means obeying Him. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Katie
 
Old 01-23-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,224,358 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Loving God means obeying Him. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you: Love one another.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 03:03 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,889,487 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steph1980 View Post
Hello church history buffs.... Please help!

When Augustine prevailed against Pelagius around 400AD, was that a fantastic victory for Christianity.... or the start of something sinister that has a hold on many today?

I mean, there's no denying that original sin doctrine is the bedrock of numerous "key doctrines" today in many church traditions, and how you understand the nature of man is crucial in forming one's understanding of what is up with pretty much everything in the Bible, especially soteriology.

So who was right?

A. Augustine
B. Pelagius (assuming we can ever really know what he believed..)
C. Neither

And if you pick b. or c. then how bad are the collateral damages we're dealing with?

It was Erenaeus who first proposed the idea of 'Original Sin'...Not Augustine, as many believe...
 
Old 01-24-2012, 03:09 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,889,487 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxjonz View Post
Woman I've said to you very plainly that you will not escape from serving the penalty of eternal death unless you confess directly to God that you are truly sorry Jesus' life was lost by bloodshed when he was crucified and be baptized into this WAY. There is no other way the Lord's command given through the apostles can be obeyed. Since you say that you are pregnant I am sure that you will not forgive a single person of a mob who has taken that child's life by bloodshed who does not confess to you that they are sorry. Would you?
Gee, I thought it was confess your sins and repent and believe on the Savior, Jeshua, that saves you...It was predetermined by Yahovaw Elohim Hawyaw that Jeshua Meshiach should be sacrificed for the sins of the world...so, it could not have happened any other way....
 
Old 01-24-2012, 04:56 AM
 
661 posts, read 619,224 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It was Erenaeus who first proposed the idea of 'Original Sin'...Not Augustine, as many believe...
Hi Richard, thanks for this... And I appreciate that Augustine wasn't the first to talk about it, I am more interested in the influence that he had in formalizing it as an accepted doctrine.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:17 AM
 
63,470 posts, read 39,739,901 times
Reputation: 7793
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Loving God and each other is the ONLY way we are justified and sanctified under the grace (Love) of Christ. It attunes us to His perfect consciousness which connects us to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Loving God means obeying Him. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Katie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you: Love one another.
Amen, Jerwade. Katie, like too any mainstream Christians, does not realize that the CONCEPT (True Nature) of God in Christianity is not remotely the same as the one in Judaism . . . NOT because God has changed . . . but because our ignorant and savage forebears had the completely wrong ideas about God. Attributing their ignorant interpretations of God's motives and supposed actions in the OT to Christ is the main apostasy that has infected the church. Expecting an apostasy in some future date is misguided. Christianity is a new religion . . . not an extension of Judaism.

There IS only one God . . so ALL RELIGIONS reflect human understanding of the one God. Religions . . . NOT empires . . . are the Beasts from Daniel 7 (I will start another thread about this idea).The scriptures are for Spiritual understanding . . . not worldly. The two major mistakes made interpreting the ancient scriptures are: 1. applying a linear sequential framework to the events and placing them in chronological order; and 2. interpreting the clearly spiritual events to worldly ones in specific eras. Our ancient ancestors were event-oriented . . . not time-oriented. Our obsession and preoccupation with linear time is a more recent cognitive development.

Bottom line: Christ's commands are Christ's revelation of the true Spirit of the ancient laws and Christians follow THEM . . . NOT the ancient understanding of Jehovah's in Judaism. The all-encompassing commands are "Love God and each other" . . . and they cover far more ground than the ten or the 613 because they embody the Spirit (intent) behind the ancient laws (schoolmaster).
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,747,557 times
Reputation: 13064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steph1980 View Post
Hello church history buffs.... Please help!

When Augustine prevailed against Pelagius around 400AD, was that a fantastic victory for Christianity.... or the start of something sinister that has a hold on many today?

I mean, there's no denying that original sin doctrine is the bedrock of numerous "key doctrines" today in many church traditions, and how you understand the nature of man is crucial in forming one's understanding of what is up with pretty much everything in the Bible, especially soteriology.

So who was right?

A. Augustine
B. Pelagius (assuming we can ever really know what he believed..)
C. Neither

And if you pick b. or c. then how bad are the collateral damages we're dealing with?
I really don't know anything about Pelagius, so I'd be really interested in knowing more about what he believed. Augustine on the other hand... well, I don't hold his views in very high regard at all!
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:37 AM
 
661 posts, read 619,224 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I really don't know anything about Pelagius, so I'd be really interested in knowing more about what he believed. Augustine on the other hand... well, I don't hold his views in very high regard at all!
My understanding is the Pelagius believed that men are made inherently good and we have the the ability to obey God, apart from grace. He had a strong sense of the free will of man and felt that Augustine's views were fatalistic.

Though I'm not really sure whether Pelagius' views have been accurately represented in the annals of history, as my understanding is that most of our information about what he believed comes from those who opposed him. So a pinch of salt may be advisable... perhaps.

Augustine had him declared a heretic at a few different councils, notably councils where Pelagius was not present to defend his views personally. Maybe someone else can shed some more light on what he believed....?
 
Old 01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
 
299 posts, read 261,852 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Gee, I thought it was confess your sins and repent and believe on the Savior, Jeshua, that saves you...It was predetermined by Yahovaw Elohim Hawyaw that Jeshua Meshiach should be sacrificed for the sins of the world...so, it could not have happened any other way....
Confessing of sins is the Augustinan error and is the sinister thing that the OP is referencing. For The crucifixion of Jesus has narrowed it down to the faith of confessing to a sin caused by bloodshed in order to become born again of God. This is the Way of God more adequately explained to you as it was to Apollos and the other twelve men. You can confess sins until you are in the grave and your jaw is still clacking confessing sins. But the only Way for you to be given the grace of escaping from the hold of death is by the faith of confessing directly to God that you are truly sorry Jesus' lfe was lost by bloodshed when he was crucified and be baptized into this more adaquate Way.
See Acts 18:24-26 & 19:1-7
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top