Augustine's influence (scriptures, Jesus, history, Apostle)

[cxjonz]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You are correct, Katz . . . We are God's children and can never become not God's children.

Take your Satan seed cult beliefs and your evil ideas about our God and peddle them elsewhere. Christians love God and God loves us, period.

Your god is a figment of your mystiscal mystic imagination.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

Think as you wish. But the scripture does fully NOT agree with your conjecture.

Thank you for your permission, and I respectfully disagree with your opinion of my conjecture. God is the Father of all of our spirits and we are His offspring. Satan never had the ability to father human beings.

God has actually said "You are the children of your father the devil" because of having been naturally born as descendant of Adam.

I believe you're referring to 1 John 3:10. We evidently interpret this somewhat differently.

Your present parental linage has nothing at all to do with any choice you have made or will make regarding rightness or wrongness. But to become born again of God, which is a must, you must accept the correct way to use to be born again of God and you have no choise in the matter of what this Way is. For it is the faith to use the Way God has perfected by Jesus' crucifixion or pay hell forever for not using it. That is God's choise concerning this matter regardless of your dislike of that confine.

I don't actually see our perspectives as differing all that much.

The Book of Mormon actually says: "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love..."

You say we're all born as "children of our father the devil." I say that "the natural man is an enemy to God." You say we must "be born again of God." I say that we must "yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put off the natural man." Not a whole lot of difference really.

[cxjonz]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Thank you for your permission, and I respectfully disagree with your opinion of my conjecture. God is the Father of all of our spirits and we are His offspring. Satan never had the ability to father human beings.

I believe you're referring to 1 John 3:10. We evidently interpret this somewhat differently.

I don't actually see our perspectives as differing all that much.

The Book of Mormon actually says: "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love..."

You say we're all born as "children of our father the devil." I say that "the natural man is an enemy to God." You say we must "be born again of God." I say that we must "yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put off the natural man." Not a whole lot of difference really.

There has never been any Mormon who has not disagreed with God.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

There has never been any Mormon who has not disagreed with God.

Sorry you feel that way. It hurts to hear people say things like that, but I hold no hard feelings against you. God wouldn't want me to. I think He and I would agree on that point.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

Your god is a figment of your mystiscal mystic imagination.

Originally Posted by cxjonz

There has never been any Mormon who has not disagreed with God.

The South Carolina Gazette?
I thought a journalist knew how to spell?
Not to mention, using double-negatives.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

According to an OT quote of God he LOVES to smell the aroma of burning flesh. Jesus Christ has perfected the Way you must have the faith to USE to prevent God from smelling the aroma of your hide in the fire. However the mystical mystic that you are and admitt you are is not going to prevent God from smelling the aroma he LOVES to smell burning. Your hide.

That was really uncalled for....

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I really don't know anything about Pelagius, so I'd be really interested in knowing more about what he believed. Augustine on the other hand... well, I don't hold his views in very high regard at all!

Well, Pelagius was the forbear of Arminius...Just as Augustine was the forbear of Calvin...Each of the latter took the doctrine of the respective forbear and developed it further...Just as Augustine took Irenaeus' Idea and developed it further, however it is said that what Irenaeus had in mind as original sin and what Augustine had in mind were very different concepts...But, if history is correct and Irenaeus did indeed hear Polycarp speak and Polycarp was indeed a disciple of Apostle John who installed him as overseer in the church of Smyna then I would wonder where Irenaeus got the idea of his concept of original sin if not from Polycarp who in turn would have gotten it from the Apostle John who would have gotten it from Jeshua Himself....

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

Confessing of sins is the Augustinan error and is the sinister thing that the OP is referencing. For The crucifixion of Jesus has narrowed it down to the faith of confessing to a sin caused by bloodshed in order to become born again of God. This is the Way of God more adequately explained to you as it was to Apollos and the other twelve men. You can confess sins until you are in the grave and your jaw is still clacking confessing sins. But the only Way for you to be given the grace of escaping from the hold of death is by the faith of confessing directly to God that you are truly sorry Jesus' lfe was lost by bloodshed when he was crucified and be baptized into this more adaquate Way.
See Acts 18:24-26 & 19:1-7

Baptised in the 'more adequate way'?...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by cxjonz

Tell you what mystical mystic. I'll give you a ride to 15,000 feet up then you open the plane's door and put your mystically foolish ideas to the test by diving out. Maybe before you hit the ground you'll come to the understanding that NOBODY loves his way into God's kingdom. But you won't have any time left to do anything about it. Note Lev. 3:16 the fat goes on the fire and that ain't a mystical experience, but is the real experience for the mystic who thinks he can love his way into God's kingdom rather than having the faith to obey God's son's command given through apostles.

And where did these commands come from?...

[Steph1980]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Well, Pelagius was the forbear of Arminius...Just as Augustine was the forbear of Calvin...Each of the latter took the doctrine of the respective forbear and developed it further...Just as Augustine took Irenaeus' Idea and developed it further, however it is said that what Irenaeus had in mind as original sin and what Augustine had in mind were very different concepts...But, if history is correct and Irenaeus did indeed hear Polycarp speak and Polycarp was indeed a disciple of Apostle John who installed him as overseer in the church of Smyna then I would wonder where Irenaeus got the idea of his concept of original sin if not from Polycarp who in turn would have gotten it from the Apostle John who would have gotten it from Jeshua Himself....

Hi Richard, I believe it was also the writings of iranaeus which the rcc uses to support papal succession and the pre-eminency of the Roman church. I agree that there is a development of ideas from one person to the next, but even a minor misinterpretation of what a predecessor said or intended can lead to serious error. And once you believe something, you can make the Bible teach it if you try hard enough.