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God would seem insane if he were Jesus--- Like at Rev 1:1---Here me have a revelation=never.
As Jesus---After i pray to myself, when I ascend to heaven I will sit at my own right hand= never.
There is 0 trinity god in existence---WAKE UP WORLD.
Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.
Modalism was condemned by Tertullian (c. 213, Tertullian Against Praxeas 1, in Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. 3). Also known as Sabellianism, it was condemned as heresy by Dionysius, bishop of Rome (c. 262).
Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God (i.e., who God is). "Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus... modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." - Modalism | Theopedia
Well, you have done your homework on Modalism. I can't say what United Apostolic Churches teach. Never heard of them. The United Pentecostal Church Inc. / UPCI is oneness (Jesus only). They are sometimes referred to as Apostolic Pentecostals, but that is a description, not an official name. I went there many times 35 years ago. They don't accuse Trinitarians of teaching 1 God is 3 gods. They correctly accuse Trinitarians of teaching that 1 God is 3 persons. UPCI teach that 1 God is 1 person named Jesus, who is both human (flesh) and Devine (Spirit). I have heard one say that Jesus was his own Father. I don't know if they all think that. You will have to ask them if that is Modal. I'm not really into theological labeling. UAC, if there is such a thing, may teach something similar.
I do not believe that God is a Trinity as in 1 GOD with 3 personalities, separate, but co-equal, made of the same substance.
I do not believe that God is Oneness / Jesus only.
I assumed you were implying that I was modal theologically, maybe I misunderstood you. I believe that God is One Spirit, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal as in "I am that I am" not "I am that we are". 1 = 1 vs 1 = 3. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the original creation of God. God (the Father) created everything else by and through Jesus (the Son) who is a separate personality. The Father is GOD HIMSELF, the Son is GOD MANIFESTED, and he speaks for God as the mediator between Creator and creation. The Spirit / H.G. has a separate personality from Jesus. The Father is WHO God is, the H.G. is WHAT God is. The Father and the Spirit / H.G. are the SAME (1) personality. God, the Father who is the Holy Ghost is 1 personality. Jesus - God manifested, is a different person. I don't know what label you put on that concept, but it isn't trinitarian and it isn't modal.
Last edited by Daingerfield; 12-10-2016 at 01:26 PM..
While it is true that the doctrine of the Trinity wasn't formulated until sometime after Christendom was well established, it isn't true that the Holy Spirit (the Ruach HaKodesh as He is called in Hebrew) is some sort of 'force'. It seems that somebody has been watching Star Wars too many times and gets their theology from science fiction.
The New Testament is replete with references to the Holy Spirit and in nearly every instance is given the pronoun HE. Not it. The Holy Spirit, according to scripture, proceeds from God and IS God. As such the Ruach HaKodesh is a spirit with personality, not an energy structure. Nowhere in tradition or scripture is God or any aspect of God given an impersonal identity. A spirit has personality - is a person. Electricity isn't. The Holy Spirit isn't some sort of electric blanket.
While the doctrine of the Trinity seeks to categorize the nature of God, the original Hebrew statement of faith, called the Shema, says it best.
SHEMA YISRAEL ADONAI ELOHEINU
ADONAI ECHAD
Hear O Isreal, the Lord. The Lord is One.
Note that the Hebrew word echad is used instead of yachid.
Yachid is Hebrew for one, but means an absolute one. For example, I have one car one bicycle and one wife.
Echad is Hebrew for one, but means a unity of one from separate parts. For example, the United States is one nation composed of many states. We don't think of 50 separate parts of America when we talk about our nation even though in reality it is really fifty. Therefore it may be accurately and truly said that the United States is echad.
My wife and I are married, which means we have become one family of separate parts. Echad, meaning one, may have many connotations. Yachid is an absolute one.
ADONAI ECHAD
God is one - meaning of separate parts. The parts identified in scripture are; father, Son (Jesus or in Hebrew Yeshua) and Holy Spirit
Adonai, Yeshua and Ruach HaKodesh.
Christians admittedly have a hard time explaining the trinity. Hebrew does not. God is simply One. It's all in the Word and the Word is God.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Well, you can quite hollering, because ECHAD can mean 1 as in union or 1 as in only 1 in number, like "there is no other beside me". Google: The word "Echad" means "ONE" - halfsheckle.com. Most of the time it means 1 in quantity.
HE, when used in reference to the Holy Ghost by Jesus, is not a separate person from the Father. It is the Father. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. Was the Holy Ghost his Father or was it another person? In other words, who was Jesus' Father or who is the baby daddy?
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-10-2016 at 03:29 PM..
The Father is GOD HIMSELF, the Son is GOD MANIFESTED, and he speaks for God as the mediator between Creator and creation. The Spirit / H.G. has a separate personality from Jesus. The Father is WHO God is, the H.G. is WHAT God is. The Father and the Spirit / H.G. are the SAME (1) personality. God, the Father who is the Holy Ghost is 1 personality. Jesus - God manifested, is a different person. I don't know what label you put on that concept, but it isn't trinitarian and it isn't modal.
The correct label is unitarian. Not Unitarian as in the denomination also known as Universalists, but unitarian, as in believing that God is a single person, or undivided consciousness or being. The Jews were unitarian in their beliefs. Thus the Sh'ma or Shema.
The correct label is unitarian. Not Unitarian as in the denomination also known as Universalists, but unitarian, as in believing that God is a single person, or undivided consciousness or being. The Jews were unitarian in their beliefs. Thus the Sh'ma or Shema.
How does the Messiah relate to the Jewish unitarian concept?
Last edited by Daingerfield; 12-10-2016 at 09:38 PM..
There is no article anywhere in the Shema and The Name is not "the Lord". And why do you put a dash in "G-d" but see no problem spelling out "the Lord" which is what you are using in place of the Tetragrammaton? Shouldn't you be using a dash also for "Lord" and "LORD", as in "The L-RD", so that you do not accidentally use a sacred name, ("the Lord", lol), in vain?
Get back to me when you learn Hebrew properly...And there are no Capital letters in Hebrew...
Well, you can quite hollering, because ECHAD can mean 1 as in union or 1 as in only 1 in number, like "there is no other beside me". Google: The word "Echad" means "ONE" - halfsheckle.com. Most of the time it means 1 in quantity.
HE, when used in reference to the Holy Ghost by Jesus, is not a separate person from the Father. It is the Father. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. Was the Holy Ghost his Father or was it another person? In other words, who was Jesus' Father or who is the baby daddy?
Where is the words Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost employed in the Tanakh?...
Are you saying that he did refer his disciples to the God (of) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or are you saying he did not? (I cannot tell for sure by the way you phrased that statement).
Interesting, can you please elaborate?
- Jesus did not refer His disciples to The God (OF) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Jesus referred His disciples to His God and to His Father.
Get back to me when you learn Hebrew properly...And there are no Capital letters in Hebrew...
Was I writing to you in Hebrew? You are the one who wrote what you wrote.
Why did you capitalize anything at all now that you realize there are no caps in Hebrew?
In fact nevermind and if you don't get back to me at all that is fine too.
- Jesus did not refer His disciples to The God (OF) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Jesus referred His disciples to His God and to His Father.
- "The Word Became Flesh"
God did not become His Own Son.
I see, thanks.
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