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You DID NOT explain it. You changed the subject and added something that was nowhere to be found anywhere in Exodus 32, saying that God can relent on punishment when people change their ways. There is ZERO mention of people changing ways in Exodus 32, and the people are still killed by God's command anyway, and those not killed are plagued or smote depending on which translation you choose. NO CHANGING IS MENTIONED.
You are doing the same thing here. I used the NAS translation in the other thread, so we didn't discuss the statement of God thinking evil according to the KJV.
Do you think God thinks evil thoughts towards his children?
If not, you do not believe the KJV is accurately reflecting the nature of God.
If you do, I would like to hear how God can be perfect and holy AND think evil thoughts.
I did indeed explain Exodus 32:14 to you. And you have not read with comprehension what I said in posts #62 and 68, of your thread --> How can people believe the actual bible was given to us by God? because you again repeat your statement about 'the people not changing their ways,' when I have told you that Moses interceded for the people and for that reason, God did not carry out the full extent of His punishment.
Where did this idea come from that God only speaks through the Scriptures?
The Holy Spirit makes the gospel understandable to the unbeliever at the point of gospel hearing.
Regarding the believer, the Holy Spirit who is the true Mentor, teaches the Spirit filled believer when the word of God is studied. And in the life of the believer, the Holy Spirit will recall to mind the pertinent doctrines and principles of the word of God which have been previously learned and metabolized. The Holy Spirit will never put into the mind of the believer anything which is not already revealed in the word of God. And He will never lead the believer contrary to what is revealed in the Scriptures.
Jesus Christ attested to the fact that the Bible is the word of God. That is the issue I am addressing in this thread.
1. So it is impossible to know God's plan for your life without the Bible?
2. What did people do before the Bible was put together?
3. When you say that Jesus honored the Scriptures did He have the Bible as we know it today in mind even though the Bible hadn't been put together yet?
4. So it is impossible for God to speak outside of the Bible?
Read what I have already said.
Regarding question #2, God in times past revealed His word to man through various means. In ancient times, God communicated through dreams, visions, angelic teaching, and through prophets. And through Jesus Christ when He came into the world. And then through the apostles who communicated the spoken and written word of God. With the completion of the New Testament in about 95 A.D., for the last book of the N.T. was written by that time, no new revelation is coming from God during the dispensation of the church. God is not revealing any new doctrines or principles. God's completed message to the church is found in the Scriptures, and the Holy Spirit teaches these things to the believer who studies them under His filling ministry. All the books of the N.T. as they were written, were circulated to the churches. That they were not all under one cover until later is of no relevence.
How do you know that God isn't having a new revelation after the close of the New Testament?
God did not overlook anything when communicating to the apostles and to Mark and Luke who were close associates of the apostles, His message to the church. The books of the New Testament had to be written by an apostle or by a close associate to an apostle. When John died, the spiritual gift of apostleship was not continued. And I am speaking of apostleship in the sense of the twelve. There are no more apostles to write Scripture.
Everything that God wanted to communicate to the church-age believer so that he can grow up spiritually has already been communicated and permanently recorded in the Scriptures.
So what you are saying is that the Bible provides everything we need to know to live by and the next revelation will be the second coming of Jesus Christ?
God did not overlook anything when communicating to the apostles and to Mark and Luke who were close associates of the apostles, His message to the church. The books of the New Testament had to be written by an apostle or by a close associate to an apostle. When John died, the spiritual gift of apostleship was not continued. And I am speaking of apostleship in the sense of the twelve. There are no more apostles to write Scripture.
Everything that God wanted to communicate to the church-age believer so that he can grow up spiritually has already been communicated and permanently recorded in the Scriptures.
I thought it was written that the Holy Spirit (God) will come physically to teach man. Christ acknowledged that he has not taught us everything because that was not his job. His job was to shed his blood and reconcile us to God ( Spirit).
If the Spirit is now teaching at this close of age would he not come with new doctrines? Afterall Christ acknowledged that there was more teachings to come. When the priesthood changes, the convenant and directions also change.
I will urge you to be cautious on the old testament as God was relating with man via angels after he chased man from the garden. For instance Moses or tge Israelites never saw God as claimed. Our Lord Jesus Christ put paid to such thoughts. Again be cautious, let his spirit direct your understanding. Peace.
I did indeed explain Exodus 32:14 to you. And you have not read with comprehension what I said in posts #62 and 68, of your thread --> How can people believe the actual bible was given to us by God? because you again repeat your statement about 'the people not changing their ways,' when I have told you that Moses interceded for the people and for that reason, God did not carry out the full extent of His punishment.
I will not again go into it here.
Your explanation involves leaving Exodus 32 and going to pick verses of other books of the bible and bring them back to Exodus 32 while at the very same time ignoring that those explanations you provide directly contradict what is revealed later in Exodus 32. Can you explain why it is okay to ignore what is written in the same chapter in favor of something pulled from an entirely separate book of the bible?
I read both of those post (again). Moses intercession as specifically stated in Exodus 32:12 was to tell God that Egypt would say that the people were simply led out of the land of Egypt to be slain by God in the mountains. There is not a single plea made to God based on the people changing which causes God to repent of the evil he thought to do to them. The plea for atonement isn't given until several verses later in verse 30, and it is denied because instead God chooses to either plague or smote the people as again the bible clearly states.
Moses tells the Levites to go kill their neighbor/friend/brother because God said so. The bible does not state that those killed were the main instigators. That is 100% speculation and actually appears contradictory to what the bible says. The bible clearly states that after Moses commanded the slaying of 3,000 brothers, friends, and neighbors, in verse 30 it says that Moses told the people they had committed a great sin and that NOW he would go up and ask for atonement and forgiveness, which God denies the atonement or forgiveness in verse 33,34 and 35.
Exodus 32:10 states that God wanted to consume them. Exodus 32:12 states that Moses referred to God's fierce wrath as "slaying them in the mountains", and "consuming them from the face of the earth".
The word adversity appears only once in the KJV, in Hebrews 13:3, and it does not interchange with evil. It does, according to bible scholars, interchange with "to plague" in Hebrews 13:3. When trying to use "to plauge" as an interchangeable option, yet another clear contradiction occurs. God relented of plaguing the people in verse 32:14 WITHOUT Moses asking for forgiveness or the people changing their hearts or their ways, then why did he plague them at the end of the chapter, verse 35, AFTER Moses actually did ask God to forgive them?
Notice that you keep leaving Exodus 32 to find information that makes it fit the inerrancy/infallibility ideology and that the information you provide actually contradicts what is said in the same chapter.
Your explanation involves leaving Exodus 32 and going to pick verses of other books of the bible and bring them back to Exodus 32 while at the very same time ignoring that those explanations you provide directly contradict what is revealed later in Exodus 32. Can you explain why it is okay to ignore what is written in the same chapter in favor of something pulled from an entirely separate book of the bible?
I read both of those post (again). Moses intercession as specifically stated in Exodus 32:12 was to tell God that Egypt would say that the people were simply led out of the land of Egypt to be slain by God in the mountains. There is not a single plea made to God based on the people changing which causes God to repent of the evil he thought to do to them. The plea for atonement isn't given until several verses later in verse 30, and it is denied because instead God chooses to either plague or smote the people as again the bible clearly states.
Moses tells the Levites to go kill their neighbor/friend/brother because God said so. The bible does not state that those killed were the main instigators. That is 100% speculation and actually appears contradictory to what the bible says. The bible clearly states that after Moses commanded the slaying of 3,000 brothers, friends, and neighbors, in verse 30 it says that Moses told the people they had committed a great sin and that NOW he would go up and ask for atonement and forgiveness, which God denies the atonement or forgiveness in verse 33,34 and 35.
Exodus 32:10 states that God wanted to consume them. Exodus 32:12 states that Moses referred to God's fierce wrath as "slaying them in the mountains", and "consuming them from the face of the earth".
The word adversity appears only once in the KJV, in Hebrews 13:3, and it does not interchange with evil. It does, according to bible scholars, interchange with "to plague" in Hebrews 13:3. When trying to use "to plauge" as an interchangeable option, yet another clear contradiction occurs. God relented of plaguing the people in verse 32:14 WITHOUT Moses asking for forgiveness or the people changing their hearts or their ways, then why did he plague them at the end of the chapter, verse 35, AFTER Moses actually did ask God to forgive them?
Notice that you keep leaving Exodus 32 to find information that makes it fit the inerrancy/infallibility ideology and that the information you provide actually contradicts what is said in the same chapter.
Scripture interprets scripture. You do not isolate one scripture from other scripture and be able to come to an accurate understanding. And your understanding is inaccurate.
As I told you, Exodus 32 having already been explained to you will not be discussed here.
If you will not listen to me then consult the commentaries. You can start here --> Exodus 32:14 Bible Commentary And learn what the word 'entreated' in verse 11 means.
You see contradictions where none exist, because you choose to, and choose not to understand.
Here is the issue. Jesus Christ said that the Old Testament scriptures are the word of God. You either believe Him, or you don't.
And that is something you are going to have to decide for yourself.
This discussion with you is over.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-12-2012 at 03:30 PM..
I thought it was written that the Holy Spirit (God) will come physically to teach man. Christ acknowledged that he has not taught us everything because that was not his job. His job was to shed his blood and reconcile us to God ( Spirit).
I addressed that in the first post. 'The New Testament Scriptures of course had not yet been given. The New Testament Scriptures are the result and fulfillment of Jesus' promise as recorded in John 16:12-15.'
'Physically' is not accurate. The Holy Spirit did not come in a physical body. He instead indwells all church-age believers.
Quote:
If the Spirit is now teaching at this close of age would he not come with new doctrines? Afterall Christ acknowledged that there was more teachings to come. When the priesthood changes, the convenant and directions also change.
When the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, He communicated to the apostles the doctrines of the Church-age. Again, I have already mentioned that the New Testament Scriptures are the result of the fulfillment of Jesus' promise in John 16:12-15.
Quote:
I will urge you to be cautious on the old testament as God was relating with man via angels after he chased man from the garden. For instance Moses or tge Israelites never saw God as claimed. Our Lord Jesus Christ put paid to such thoughts. Again be cautious, let his spirit direct your understanding. Peace.
I will not take this thread off topic to argue whether or not the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament was Jesus Christ.
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