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And I wonder what Jesus would say about Exodus 32:14 in the King James Version which says:
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Does God think evil thoughts?
If we are to believe the inerrancy of the bibles we have today, we must believe that God can want to do evil to his children.
So which is it? Do we believe God thinks evil towards his children? Or do we believe our current canonized bibles could have been mistranslated in ways that defy the nature of God?
You cannot have it both ways.
Hi TXboomerang First thing is the bible is not the word of God, Jesus is the word of God. The bible is God inspired writings that all are true and in many cases are not literal but have a high figurative meaning but are still true. The bible does not lie and does not contradict itself. There are some verses that people read as contradictions but they are interpreting the verses wrong, the bible does not contradict ever.
Secondly the story in Exodus is when God had told Moses that the people had done a great sin and he was going to punish them. Moses stands up for them and reminds God of his promise to make a great nation out of Abraham and Issac and it say God repented. Do you really think God needed reminding of his promise? do you really think God did not know Moses's heart and that he would object? Do you really think that one man in a few words can change God's mind? How weak do you think God is?
Remember parts of the bible are told from the point of view of men and parts from the point of view of God. God knew exactly what He was going to do and He knew exactly how Moses would respond. This was a lesson for Moses and God was using it to change Moses into a vessel that God was going to use to fulfill His promises. He was strengthening Moses's heart and convictions into a stronger leader and a vessel to complete the task God had for him.
God is perfect. The reason he "does not change" is you don't change perfection. God can not make a mistake or error so if He is in control of His creation, and He is, all is of God.
1. So it is impossible to know God's plan for your life without the Bible?
Correct.
But thesearewritten that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solich2
2. What did people do before the Bible was put together?
they refused to listen and all the thoughts in their heart were evil all the time. So he saved eight people and destroyed the balance.
Doesn't say much for the success of people who rely on the verbal only... does it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solich2
3. When you say that Jesus honored the Scriptures did He have the Bible as we know it today in mind even though the Bible hadn't been put together yet?
Yes because Jesus knows everything. And Jesus knew what would survive for us today.
At the time, Jesus refered to scriptures which we have in our OT when he says
The books of Moses (Gen - Deut)
The Psalms [most done by King David] ............( Psalms)
The prophets ......... ( all the rest of the OT)
The Apostles admitted what they wrote was scriptures
Matthew aka "Levi" in Mark 2:14 wrote .....
(Matthew)
Mark aka "John Mark" wrote .....
(Mark)
Luke wrote ............
(Luke)
(Acts)
John wrote ............
(John)
(1, 2, & 3 John)
(Revelation
Paul wrote
(Romans)
(1 & 2 Corinthians)
(Galations)
(Ephesians)
(Philippians)
(Colossians)
( 1 & 2 Thessalonians)
( 1 & 2 Timothy)
(Titus)
(Philemon)
James wrote
(James)
Peter wrote
( 1 & 2 Peter)
It is only Hebrews in which no one is for certian knows who wrote it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solich2
4. So it is impossible for God to speak outside of the Bible?
Of course not... but the next time he does it will be called "Judgement Day" when all the dead will hear his voice and all the nations will see Jesus' second coming.
I thought it was written that the Holy Spirit (God) will come physically to teach man. Christ acknowledged that he has not taught us everything because that was not his job. His job was to shed his blood and reconcile us to God ( Spirit).
If the Spirit is now teaching at this close of age would he not come with new doctrines? Afterall Christ acknowledged that there was more teachings to come. When the priesthood changes, the convenant and directions also change.
I will urge you to be cautious on the old testament as God was relating with man via angels after he chased man from the garden. For instance Moses or tge Israelites never saw God as claimed. Our Lord Jesus Christ put paid to such thoughts. Again be cautious, let his spirit direct your understanding. Peace.
Hi Marlbron One thing I think you are missing is that Jesus was the God of the old testament not the Father. Jesus (Jehovah) was the one that created the universe, not the Father, Jesus was the one that walked with Adam, not the Father, Jesus spoke with Moses, not the Father. No man has ever seen or heard the Father. We only know him through his word, Jesus. Jesus came to reveal the Father. What were Jesus' first recorded words? " Let there be light" Before he came no one knew there was a Father of the creator.
I know a lot of people are going to object to this thinking, but if you read the scripture carefully it tells you that all things visible and invisible were created by, through and for Him, Jesus.
"If the Bible is not the Word of God, then nothing of what it says can be trusted concerning who and what God is."
well lucky ofr us, it is NOT!!!!!
seriously, some writings put together by triblists, trying to explain the world around them through magic, superstition and divine intervention, and that equals the word of god? Not even close
The Bible is NOT the "Word of God" 1 There can be no such thing. If "god" , then he /she/ did exist it could not be revealed through language, or through humanity or through any of man's inventions. 2 such Utimate Reality would have to be revealed as "Essence" not as "Being" Incarnated or otherwise. Any such revelation should it happen would happen on a personal level,
The Bible is a great book of RELIGION
That is all it is, a book of religion, a mere futile attempt by man to define the undefinable.
there is no definitive proof that the Bible is "not" The "Word of god' just like there is no definitive proof of aliens bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. But the evidence presented throughout this recurring argument that the Bible is NOT the word of God overwhelms any given evidence that it is.
Scripture interprets scripture. You do not isolate one scripture from other scripture and be able to come to an accurate understanding. And your understanding is inaccurate.
Your understanding is inaccurate.
Quote:
As I told you, Exodus 32 having already been explained to you will not be discussed here.
Since you refuse to actually discuss Exodus 32, I will stop attempting it also.
Quote:
If you will not listen to me then consult the commentaries. You can start here --> Exodus 32:14 Bible Commentary And learn what the word 'entreated' in verse 11 means.
KJV dictionary of "entreated" --ENTRE'ATED, pp. Earnestly supplicated, besought or solicited; importuned; urgently requested. I have been fully aware of that the whole time. You ignore the reasoning used for the request in verse 12 and try to substitute what happens in verse 31 and 32 INSTEAD of verse 12.
Quote:
You see contradictions where none exist, because you choose to, and choose not to understand.
You see no contradictions where they clearly exist, because you choose to, and you choose to not understand.
Quote:
Here is the issue. Jesus Christ said that the Old Testament scriptures are the word of God. You either believe Him, or you don't.
And that is something you are going to have to decide for yourself.
This discussion with you is over.
Considering you have avoided anything other than the apologetics version of Exodus 32 which requires a warm taffy like use of the bible, I would agree the discussion is over.
You started a thread that was very clearly directed towards those who don't take an inerrantist view of the bible. You then made a very strong claim towards a dichotomy that does not exist when you say that if one doesn't believe God gave us a perfect bible then nothing at all in the bible can be trusted.
It comes down to this. While I have a hard time understanding why people cling to the inerrantist view of the bible, I do not reject the idea that they believe in God and Christ. Whenever I make known (not just this board, this all stems from trying to deal with my family over this issue and me coming here to discuss it) that I do not think the bible is inerrant, I am told that I reject God. To me, that is putting the bible on the same level as God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, which now creates a ?quadinity? instead of a trinity.
According to the bible, God gave us a perfect world to live in, and through one single mistake of the first man and woman, we are all corrupted. And we are to take MAN'S word for it that the bibles we have today have not been corrupted in any way? Since the bible doesn't even give the process of how a bible was to be compiled and canonized, how on earth can we know that the book we hold is exactly what God wanted us to hold? Why is it that there are KJV adherents that hold the belief that the newer translations have watered down the meanings? Why is it that there are newer translations that aren't as harsh in many places as the KJV and the scholars feel the KJV was written with more harsh language on purpose, in order to "get people's attention more"?
If God would have wanted a perfect book to reach our hands, it would be in our hands with no scribal errors and no translation discreprancies which almost all inerrantists admit exists. God speaks to each and every one of us, directly to our hearts and minds. That is what I trust as I need no scholar to tell me how to translate a foreign language to me for that.
Hi TXboomerang First thing is the bible is not the word of God, Jesus is the word of God. The bible is God inspired writings that all are true and in many cases are not literal but have a high figurative meaning but are still true. The bible does not lie and does not contradict itself. There are some verses that people read as contradictions but they are interpreting the verses wrong, the bible does not contradict ever.
Secondly the story in Exodus is when God had told Moses that the people had done a great sin and he was going to punish them. Moses stands up for them and reminds God of his promise to make a great nation out of Abraham and Issac and it say God repented. Do you really think God needed reminding of his promise? do you really think God did not know Moses's heart and that he would object? Do you really think that one man in a few words can change God's mind? How weak do you think God is?
Remember parts of the bible are told from the point of view of men and parts from the point of view of God. God knew exactly what He was going to do and He knew exactly how Moses would respond. This was a lesson for Moses and God was using it to change Moses into a vessel that God was going to use to fulfill His promises. He was strengthening Moses's heart and convictions into a stronger leader and a vessel to complete the task God had for him.
God is perfect. The reason he "does not change" is you don't change perfection. God can not make a mistake or error so if He is in control of His creation, and He is, all is of God.
The Bible is the word of God and was so recognized by Jesus Himself as shown in the original post.
Jesus Christ believed it, and He said it, and that settles it. The issue for those who deny that the Bible is the word of God is whether or not you believe Jesus.
The Bible is the word of God and was so recognized by Jesus Himself as shown in the original post.
Jesus Christ believed it, and He said it, and that settles it. The issue for those who deny that the Bible is the word of God is whether or not you believe Jesus.
The bible may have been the word of God way back when, but as time went by, translation and political agenda tweaked it a bit, it's been so tainted that you can never know what the origional words were vs the revised and edited words.
The Bible is the word of God and was so recognized by Jesus Himself as shown in the original post.
Jesus Christ believed it, and He said it, and that settles it. The issue for those who deny that the Bible is the word of God is whether or not you believe Jesus.
Which translation was Jesus holding up when he said it?
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
"Never has a man spoken the way this man speaks."
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