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Old 02-12-2012, 11:06 AM
 
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If the Bible is not the Word of God, then nothing of what it says can be trusted concerning who and what God is. Nothing of what it says can be trusted concerning the means of eternal salvation and the eternal destiny of the believer versus the eternal destiny of the unbeliever. Nothing of what it claims that Jesus said can be trusted.

But the Bible is the Word of God and the fingerprints of God are all over it. But this thread is not directed at those who don't even believe in God. It is directed toward those who claim to be believers in Jesus Christ and yet deny that the Bible is God's word.

Jesus Christ recognized the Old Testament Scriptures as the word of God and therefore having divine authority.


The New Testament Scriptures of course had not yet been given. The New Testament Scriptures are the result and fulfillment of Jesus' promise as recorded in John 16:12-15.

The words of the apostles have the same authority as the words of Jesus Christ. ''And whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.'' (Matt 10:14-15)

''The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.'' (Luke 10:16)


Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament Scriptures. And He quoted Scripture when resisting the temptations of Satan in the wilderness. Matthew 4:1-11. Jesus said, 'It is written.'

When the Sadducees, who denied the resurrection, attempted to discredit Jesus and His ministry, He appealed to the Scriptures. ''You are mistaken, not understandng the Scriptures, or the power of God.'' (Matthew 22:29).

Jesus elevated Scripture above His own miracles. ''But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' ''But he said, 'No, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' ''But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.' '' (Luke 16:29-31)


Jesus' verification of the Old Testament Scriptures as the Word of God, and His attestment to their literalness, is evident in His appeal to them.

Matthew 19:4 ''Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5] and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become ne flesh'? 6] Consequently they are are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.''

Mark 12:26 ''But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?''

''It is written'; 'Have you not read?'


In Mark 7:6 Jesus quoted Isaiah 29:13, calling the Pharisees hypocrites because they neglected the commandments of God and instead held to the traditions of men, thereby invalidating the word of God by their tradition. The Pharisees had appealed to Numbers 30:1-2 concerning the Corban vow, in order to nullify God's command to 'Honor your father and your mother.' They used one Biblical teaching to disregard another Biblical teaching and hold to their traditions, thereby invalidating the word of God. Mark 7:12 'you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''

Jesus had called the Old Testament Scriptures the word of God.


How is it then, that many who claim to be believers in Jesus Christ reject the Bible as the word of God, when Jesus Christ Himself said that it IS the word of God?!!!

Last edited by Mike555; 02-12-2012 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:38 AM
 
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And I wonder what Jesus would say about Exodus 32:14 in the King James Version which says:


14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Does God think evil thoughts?

If we are to believe the inerrancy of the bibles we have today, we must believe that God can want to do evil to his children.

So which is it? Do we believe God thinks evil towards his children? Or do we believe our current canonized bibles could have been mistranslated in ways that defy the nature of God?

You cannot have it both ways.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Here and There
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"If the Bible is not the Word of God, then nothing of what it says can be trusted concerning who and what God is."

Exactly. That is why many people (like myself) seriously doubt the authenticity of the bible and chalk it up as a book of stories, at best.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:49 AM
 
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I would also add that inerrantists are always quick to point out Romans 1:19-20 to say that people who are illiterate or have never seen a bible or lived an entire life and died without seeing a bible are fully accountable for all God expects of us:

Romans 1
19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


God has the power to reveal his will for our lives fully without ever seeing a bible or being able to read it according to those who regularly use those verses to say every human on the planet is accountable to the same standards. And yet they are blown away by the thought of someone listening to God speak to them through the Holy Spirit as their #1 source of understanding, direction and purpose.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:58 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
And I wonder what Jesus would say about Exodus 32:14 in the King James Version which says:


14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Does God think evil thoughts?

If we are to believe the inerrancy of the bibles we have today, we must believe that God can want to do evil to his children.

So which is it? Do we believe God thinks evil towards his children? Or do we believe our current canonized bibles could have been mistranslated in ways that defy the nature of God?

You cannot have it both ways.
I explained Ex 32:14 to you in your own thread. You chose not to listen.

Jesus honored the Scriptures as the word of God. If you refuse to, your rejection of the Scriptures is your affair.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:13 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
I would also add that inerrantists are always quick to point out Romans 1:19-20 to say that people who are illiterate or have never seen a bible or lived an entire life and died without seeing a bible are fully accountable for all God expects of us:

Romans 1
19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


God has the power to reveal his will for our lives fully without ever seeing a bible or being able to read it according to those who regularly use those verses to say every human on the planet is accountable to the same standards. And yet they are blown away by the thought of someone listening to God speak to them through the Holy Spirit as their #1 source of understanding, direction and purpose.
No one can personally know God and God's plan apart from what He has revealed about Himself in the Scriptures.

Creation can give only a general revelation of God. The specifics are contained in His written word. General revelation reveals nothing of the Person of Jesus Christ, nor does general revelation give the details of God's plan for the ages.

Looking those things which God has created can only show that there is a creator. The natural revelation of God seen in the natural world is there for all the world to see, but it is not soteriological, dealing with salvation effected by Jesus Christ.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:24 PM
 
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1. So it is impossible to know God's plan for your life without the Bible?

2. What did people do before the Bible was put together?

3. When you say that Jesus honored the Scriptures did He have the Bible as we know it today in mind even though the Bible hadn't been put together yet?

4. So it is impossible for God to speak outside of the Bible?
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I explained Ex 32:14 to you in your own thread. You chose not to listen.

Jesus honored the Scriptures as the word of God. If you refuse to, your rejection of the Scriptures is your affair.
You DID NOT explain it. You changed the subject and added something that was nowhere to be found anywhere in Exodus 32, saying that God can relent on punishment when people change their ways. There is ZERO mention of people changing ways in Exodus 32, and the people are still killed by God's command anyway, and those not killed are plagued or smote depending on which translation you choose. NO CHANGING IS MENTIONED.

You are doing the same thing here. I used the NAS translation in the other thread, so we didn't discuss the statement of God thinking evil according to the KJV.

Do you think God thinks evil thoughts towards his children?

If not, you do not believe the KJV is accurately reflecting the nature of God.

If you do, I would like to hear how God can be perfect and holy AND think evil thoughts.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:35 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,186,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No one can personally know God and God's plan apart from what He has revealed about Himself in the Scriptures.

Creation can give only a general revelation of God. The specifics are contained in His written word. General revelation reveals nothing of the Person of Jesus Christ, nor does general revelation give the details of God's plan for the ages.

Looking those things which God has created can only show that there is a creator. The natural revelation of God seen in the natural world is there for all the world to see, but it is not soteriological, dealing with salvation effected by Jesus Christ.
So you are saying those who are illiterate or without the bible CANNOT know God's ways and his will?

This would mean God doesn't care about hundreds of millions, potentially billions of people being able to know him.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:36 PM
 
84 posts, read 94,406 times
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Where did this idea come from that God only speaks through the Scriptures?
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