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Old 02-13-2012, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Some interesting verses here. It sounds like Jesus is giving the authority to forgive sins to his diciples, but we know that cannot be true because it is abundantly clear that only Christ can forgive sins. So what is he saying here?
I think the "keys to the kingdom" in this case means the holy spirit, - the ability to understand and explain the Gospel to others.


John 20:23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Matt 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-13-2012 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:31 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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John 20:23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Well this verse is better understood in paraphrasing it, "Forgive the sins that God has forgiven; do not forgive the sins that God has not forgiven."
We do not have the authority to forgive the sins that is God's power and authority....
As you said, Jesus did not give the apostle His own authority to forgive sins this is to be understood that this commission to mean the power of declaring with the authority the Christian terms of pardon.

Christ's followers have the privilege of assuring any sinner that he/she shall be freely and fully forgiven on the basis of God's promises.... "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." (1John 1:9)

Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Peter and the other disciples were given the keys that would allow people into God's kingdom. Those keys were the truths of the gospel which they preached. All who believe entered the Kingdom, all who refuse were kept out.

Matt 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

When erring believers are reconciled in this earthly life. God ratifies that reconciliation. If believers continue in sin despite the efforts of the Church, their refusal and their discipline by the Church also have eternal consequences....
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
John 20:23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Well this verse is better understood in paraphrasing it, "Forgive the sins that God has forgiven; do not forgive the sins that God has not forgiven."
We do not have the authority to forgive the sins that is God's power and authority....
As you said, Jesus did not give the apostle His own authority to forgive sins this is to be understood that this commission to mean the power of declaring with the authority the Christian terms of pardon.

Christ's followers have the privilege of assuring any sinner that he/she shall be freely and fully forgiven on the basis of God's promises.... "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." (1John 1:9)

Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Peter and the other disciples were given the keys that would allow people into God's kingdom. Those keys were the truths of the gospel which they preached. All who believe entered the Kingdom, all who refuse were kept out.

Matt 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

When erring believers are reconciled in this earthly life. God ratifies that reconciliation. If believers continue in sin despite the efforts of the Church, their refusal and their discipline by the Church also have eternal consequences....
Yes, I believe you are correct, especially with the part I highlighted with blue. Believers can declare sins are forgiven if people place their faith in Christ. It does not mean the sins are forgiven by the apostles. Their job is to explain the path to salvation, and the Holy Spirit helps them in that task.

I am not too sure about your comment about Matt 18:18, I think it says the same thing as Matt 16:19
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, I believe you are correct, especially with the part I highlighted with blue. Believers can declare sins are forgiven if people place their faith in Christ. It does not mean the sins are forgiven by the apostles. Their job is to explain the path to salvation, and the Holy Spirit helps them in that task.

I am not too sure about your comment about Matt 18:18, I think it says the same thing as Matt 16:19
It does because actually all three verses you have given are connected in together in their understanding... cross referencing to one another
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
It does because actually all three verses you have given are connected in together in their understanding... referencing to one another
Yes, they are all connected, which is why I lumped them all in the same post. My wife asked me about John 20:23 and when we started reading we ran into the other two. But if they are same, why is your explanation to the last verse so different than the other ones? You think "whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" is talking about people who continue to sin after forgiveness? I admit I paid more attention to the first part of the verse "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven".

Both parts talk about the apotles, don't they? The apostles (not the people they preach to) either "bind" or "loose", so I would think it talks about those people they fail to reach.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-13-2012 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, they are all connected, which is why I lumped them all in the same post. My wife asked me about John 20:23 and when we started reading we ran into the other two. But if they are same, why is your explanation to the last verse so different than the other ones? You think "whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" is talking about people who continue to sin after forgiveness? I admit I paid more attention to the first part of the verse "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven".

Both parts talk about the apotles, don't they? The apostles (not the people they preach to) either "bind" or "loose", so I would think it talks about those people they fail to reach.
I re-wrote in hopes that you may understand what I was saying better.....

When erring believers are reconciled in this earthly life. God ratifies that reconciliation. His forgives..... through Jesus Christ !!

If believers/nonbelievers continue in sin despite the efforts of the people, the Church, their refusal and the discipline by the Church also have eternal consequences.... if your sins are not forgive they are still bound to this earth... the eternal consequences will be that you will not reign with the Lord for etenity....

It is the gospel through Jesus Christ that when preached that binds and loosens.... a person from their sin or not !
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:53 AM
 
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I absolutely love the fact that I can go before the throne of God in Christ and ask sins to be forgiven without having to go through some earthly priesthood.

Christians are to forgive everyone and everything because how much we have been forgiven.

Forgiveness is such a precious word written in blood on that cross 2000 years ago.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
I absolutely love the fact that I can go before the throne of God in Christ and ask sins to be forgiven without having to go through some earthly priesthood.

Christians are to forgive everyone and everything because how much we have been forgiven.

Forgiveness is such a precious word written in blood on that cross 2000 years ago.
Amen...
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
I re-wrote in hopes that you may understand what I was saying better.....

When erring believers are reconciled in this earthly life. God ratifies that reconciliation. His forgives..... through Jesus Christ !!

If believers/nonbelievers continue in sin despite the efforts of the people, the Church, their refusal and the discipline by the Church also have eternal consequences.... if your sins are not forgive they are still bound to this earth... the eternal consequences will be that you will not reign with the Lord for etenity....

It is the gospel through Jesus Christ that when preached that binds and loosens.... a person from their sin or not !
I see what you are saying, but I do not think it refers to erring believers. Could it be about the binding / loosening of the laws, - being bound by, or being released from the law. It is the apostles duty to inform the people which laws are to be followed, and which can be ignored. Or maybe I am still missing something here...

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-13-2012 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
I absolutely love the fact that I can go before the throne of God in Christ and ask sins to be forgiven without having to go through some earthly priesthood.

Christians are to forgive everyone and everything because how much we have been forgiven.

Forgiveness is such a precious word written in blood on that cross 2000 years ago.
Amen, we are to forgive 70x7 times (all the time), but I do not believe the verses are about us forgiving each other. Us forgiving each other is different from forgiveness of sins, which is something only Christ can do.
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