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Old 02-13-2012, 11:07 AM
 
8,825 posts, read 6,303,394 times
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'

What is going on?

Quote:
Large numbers of Catholics are poorly catechized. They do not know why they believe what they believe and are unable to respond to non-Catholics who challenge them on why they believe what they believe.
The following are some examples of how evangelical or bible believing Christians challenge Catholics and their beliefs.

"We only believe what is clearly stated in the Bible, Catholics believe in Tradition and man-made rules."

"We worship Jesus, Catholics worship Mary and the Saints."

"We believe one can only be saved by accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior, Catholics believe one is saved by good works."

"Our worship is spirit-filled, Catholic worship consists of lifeless ritual."

"We look to the Bible alone for what we should believe, Catholics look to the Pope. We believe that only the Bible is infallible. Catholics believe the Pope is infallible."

"We believe that God alone forgives sins. Catholics have to go to a priest to forgive sins."
In addition, Catholics are challenged on why they believe in Purgatory, the Communion of Saints, statues, medals, the seven Sacraments and the Rosary. Sadly all to many Catholics are unable to explain why we believe in the above.

http://www.ascensioncatholic.net/TOP...elization.html

An Interesting Phenomenon

While we have large numbers of Catholics leaving the Catholic church to join a more 'spiritually alive church', a more 'bible based church', we have in the past 20 years a growing number of Protestant ministers being led by the Spirit to convert to Catholicism. We also have a number of lay evangelicals joining the Catholic church and a number of people who were raised in the Catholic church, join an evangelical church for years and now are returning home to the Catholic church.

This phenomenon is amazing to me when I consider the following factors:



Nearly all of the Protestant ministers now converting to Catholicism were raised in an anti-Catholic atmosphere.

They were very well educated in their own religious beliefs. So it wasn't as if they didn't truly know what their particular church believed.

Joining the Catholic church meant losing their jobs. Nearly all of these converts were Pastors in their church's. When they joined the Catholic church they wanted to continue in Christian ministry. Some were able to do this, others were not.

Often these men left vibrant faith communities to join a parish that may not have been very spiritually alive.

They joined the Catholic church during a time when the media highlighted all sex scandals and the cover-up of these by our bishops. Who needs to join such a church?
So why were these Ministers led to the Catholic Church?

Briefly, they were led to the Catholic church as a result of extensive study especially into the roots of Christianity. All of these former ministers now believe that the Catholic church is the one true church founded by Jesus Christ.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Southern California
1,435 posts, read 1,294,373 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
'

What is going on?

The following are some examples of how evangelical or bible believing Christians challenge Catholics and their beliefs.

"We only believe what is clearly stated in the Bible, Catholics believe in Tradition and man-made rules."

"We worship Jesus, Catholics worship Mary and the Saints."

"We believe one can only be saved by accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior, Catholics believe one is saved by good works."

"Our worship is spirit-filled, Catholic worship consists of lifeless ritual."

"We look to the Bible alone for what we should believe, Catholics look to the Pope. We believe that only the Bible is infallible. Catholics believe the Pope is infallible."

"We believe that God alone forgives sins. Catholics have to go to a priest to forgive sins."
In addition, Catholics are challenged on why they believe in Purgatory, the Communion of Saints, statues, medals, the seven Sacraments and the Rosary. Sadly all to many Catholics are unable to explain why we believe in the above.

http://www.ascensioncatholic.net/TOP...elization.html

An Interesting Phenomenon

While we have large numbers of Catholics leaving the Catholic church to join a more 'spiritually alive church', a more 'bible based church', we have in the past 20 years a growing number of Protestant ministers being led by the Spirit to convert to Catholicism. We also have a number of lay evangelicals joining the Catholic church and a number of people who were raised in the Catholic church, join an evangelical church for years and now are returning home to the Catholic church.

This phenomenon is amazing to me when I consider the following factors:



Nearly all of the Protestant ministers now converting to Catholicism were raised in an anti-Catholic atmosphere.

They were very well educated in their own religious beliefs. So it wasn't as if they didn't truly know what their particular church believed.

Joining the Catholic church meant losing their jobs. Nearly all of these converts were Pastors in their church's. When they joined the Catholic church they wanted to continue in Christian ministry. Some were able to do this, others were not.

Often these men left vibrant faith communities to join a parish that may not have been very spiritually alive.

They joined the Catholic church during a time when the media highlighted all sex scandals and the cover-up of these by our bishops. Who needs to join such a church?
So why were these Ministers led to the Catholic Church?

Briefly, they were led to the Catholic church as a result of extensive study especially into the roots of Christianity. All of these former ministers now believe that the Catholic church is the one true church founded by Jesus Christ.
The converting Evangelical ministers know theology and church history better...sadly.

Some lay Catholics just want an easy, feel-good "once saved, always saved" religion free of any real authority.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:49 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,079,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmforte View Post
The converting Evangelical ministers know theology and church history better...sadly.

Some lay Catholics just want an easy, feel-good "once saved, always saved" religion free of any real authority.
Just wanted you and Julian to know I do not believe in once saved always saved, nor do I believe in unconditional election. These are the false teachings of John Calvin. I also do not believe in faith only.

So you see, we do agree on some things.

Katie
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:54 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,079,793 times
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Julian and cmforte,

Could you give me the official catholic definition of the word worship. A web link would be great.

I have been looking at the hebrew word for worship and its meaning. I'm also looking at the orig. Greek word a nd meaning along with our English meaning.

Thanks.

Katie
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:34 PM
 
8,825 posts, read 6,303,394 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Just wanted you and Julian to know I do not believe in once saved always saved, nor do I believe in unconditional election. These are the false teachings of John Calvin. I also do not believe in faith only.

So you see, we do agree on some things.

Katie

Katie:

There are some good debates on faith only plus works on you tube.


Regarding the topic:

I think that for some the Catholic Church is seem as too dogmatic and less charismatic. Many folks respond to the charisma of many non-catholic preachers.


As to why some Evangelical ministers become Catholic. The catholic Church provides an avenue that is not available in other churches. There are folks that seek a mystic, monastic, ascetic situation and that is not available through the Protestant Church.

Here is a video of a Protestant Pastor that converted to Catholicism and fell in love with the Virgin Mary Devotions. Everybody is different regarding what they need form God.


FiNews #12: Neil Babcox - Protestant Pastor becomes Catholic - YouTube

God Bless!

Hope you had a great weekend
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:36 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,079,793 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Katie:

There are some good debates on faith only plus works on you tube.


Regarding the topic:

I think that for some the Catholic Church is seem as too dogmatic and less charismatic. Many folks respond to the charisma of many non-catholic preachers.


As to why some Evangelical ministers become Catholic. The catholic Church provides an avenue that is not available in other churches. There are folks that seek a mystic, monastic, ascetic situation and that is not available through the Protestant Church.

Here is a video of a Protestant Pastor that converted to Catholicism and fell in love with the Virgin Mary Devotions. Everybody is different regarding what they need form God.


FiNews #12: Neil Babcox - Protestant Pastor becomes Catholic - YouTube

God Bless!

Hope you had a great weekend
Too many people are looking for "feel good" churches. They miss the whole point. It's about giving to God the worship that is due Him, not about what a person can get out of the church they go to.

It's kinda like what JFK said, "It's not what God can do for you, it's what you can do for God.

When we all have that kind of church attitude, denominations will disappear.

God bless,

Katie
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:50 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,526,585 times
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Could it be an increasing percentage of Catholics in our population? I know some pastors left Methodist and Presbyterian churches years ago when the evangelical boom started. I know offerings are way down in some churches due to the economy. Maybe they just want to keep getting a pay check. Call me a cynic..

BTW, our pastor and both deacons are leaving our church for greener pastures.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:11 AM
 
8,825 posts, read 6,303,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Too many people are looking for "feel good" churches. They miss the whole point. It's about giving to God the worship that is due Him, not about what a person can get out of the church they go to.

It's kinda like what JFK said, "It's not what God can do for you, it's what you can do for God.

When we all have that kind of church attitude, denominations will disappear.

God bless,

Katie

God does not need worship.

I think we need God more than God need us. That is the human condition!

There too many Protestant denominations. There is one Catholic Church since the onset of Christianity. Nevertheless, I personally pay no attention to religious differences because they are praying to the same God. God is not petty and he does not care about those differences. If God cared about that then he would be less Godly and that is not possible.

Your church does not play music whereas others do. It does not really matter what you do with that.

Christianity is about living like Jesus.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:22 AM
 
8,825 posts, read 6,303,394 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Julian and cmforte,

Could you give me the official catholic definition of the word worship. A web link would be great.

I have been looking at the hebrew word for worship and its meaning. I'm also looking at the orig. Greek word a nd meaning along with our English meaning.

Thanks.

Katie

Quote:
There are several degrees of this worship:
  • if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14580x.htm - broken link) term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.
  • When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon, Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).
  • As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).


Catholic encyclopedia
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:28 AM
 
419 posts, read 676,957 times
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A good book on this very topic is "Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic" by David Currie.
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