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I would never want a God like that, not a million years. That is the most derogatory statement I have ever seen about God and it clearly demonstrates the ignorance of Jewish writers. Do not forget that the NT was also written by Jews and they modeled the NT after the old Old Testament. You are quoting primitive thinking that is very ancient and irrelevant to our times. The Bible is not the word of God. The Bible is nothing but a brochure to follow God and was written by men that had their own agendas.
The issue of graven images is directed at pagans. We Catholics are Christians and we enjoy images and statues of Jesus, Mary, the saints, etc. If you cannot see the difference between Paganism and what we do as Catholics then you are unable to accept other points of view.
Looks like you could have a problem Julian, because that God that you don't want is the one that is in your very own Douay Rheims catholic Bible, and it's His son who will judge you on the last day according to His word that you don't think applies to you, and is irrelevant in this day and age.
I see you have changed your position from previous threads where you say the Bible is the word of God. Okay, I guess you can do that.
Speaking of men who have their own agendas, I would like to redirect you back to the OP. How do you feel about these official comments from the RCC? Do you agree with the church's official position?
God our Father and source is to be recognized and worshipped for who He is. Only He gives us life and is the source of life. He is all that is good and He is our God. I don't believe that He needs our worship but we need to recognize, honor, and worship Him for who He is. Any other way, we are out of step with who we were created to be. God bless and peace.
Shana,
Thank you for pointing out that God is our creator, and it is Him our worship needs to be directed to always.
Miss Blue;23043306]I just messaged one of my very Catholic cousins in Springfield Ohio and asked her if the church had messed with the ten commandments by removing the one about graven images.. she sort of laughed told me they have been hearing this for years..She told me that they use the commandments in Deuteronomy whereas the protestants use the ones in Exodus.
Then she reminded me of the little book that our gramma gave all of us with the ten commandments in it from Deuteronomy..about the same time she gave us the little cross necklaces..
Blue,
Thank you for your post. I can only tell you what my own personal experience has been. I was raised catholic and went through catholic school. The ten commandments I was taught did not include the second commandment. I have spoken to other catholics who have said the same.
When I grew up, I married a catholic man, and we went to live with his parents. They had a big fat Douay Rheims catholic Bible, and I was completely facinated with it. I never knew such a thing existed. All I was ever exposed to was prayer books and the like. I was completely facinated by this Bible. So as often as I could, I would read from it. That is when I discovered that the ten commandments I'd been taught were different than the ones I found written in the Douay Bible. That led me to other discoveries, which were totally contradictory to what the RCC taught.
Please understand I am not saying the RCC removed the ten commandments from the Bible. Even they wouldn't have the audacity to do that. But they do not teach the ten commandments to their children the way God gave them to Moses.
Please check out the vatican website I have linked below, and there you will find three sets of the ten commandments. One is from Exodus, one from Deuteronomy, and the final one is the Traditional Catechetical Formula. Obviously, I was taught the third version, which removes the second, and makes the tenth into nine and ten.
If you, like most catholics, do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then you would not find this offensive. You would be okay with the RCC teaching its children all over the world their version of the ten commandments. I do believe God's word is inspired, and no one has the right to change it.
The question for me is WHY? Why not just use the ten commandments given to us by God, written with His very own finger on two stone tablets? The answer is very obvious IMHO.
I leave you with the following verses from the Douay Rheims Bible.
[5] And the Pharisees and scribes asked him: Why do not thy disciples walk according to the tradition of the ancients, but they eat bread with common hands?
[6] But he answering, said to them: Well did Isaias prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[7]And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men. [8] For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these.
[9]And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition
(Mark 7; Douay Rheims)
God Bless,
Katie
Last edited by MissKate12; 02-19-2012 at 06:21 AM..
Just a word of caution: There have been a number of mod cuts and deletions made in this thread. Please be aware of the fact that there oftentimes exists a fine line between dialogue around a topic and outright bashing. Please know if there are any posts that are offensive or disrespectful to our Catholic members that this thread will be closed.
Looks like you could have a problem Julian, because that God that you don't want is the one that is in your very own Douay Rheims catholic Bible, and it's His son who will judge you on the last day according to His word that you don't think applies to you, and is irrelevant in this day and age.
I see you have changed your position from previous threads where you say the Bible is the word of God. Okay, I guess you can do that.
Speaking of men who have their own agendas, I would like to redirect you back to the OP. How do you feel about these official comments from the RCC? Do you agree with the church's official position?
Katie
Katie:
I used to think the Bible was the word of God and I often forced myself to think in that manner. But, no more! The more I read the Bible the the more I realize it is a very imperfect book.
The veneration of Mary does not bother me at all, because God is perfect and not jealous.
Last edited by Julian658; 02-19-2012 at 09:57 AM..
I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings on this thread. If I was rude or disrespectful to any of you, please forgive me. That was never my intention. I have worked very hard to not be that way, but apparently, this topic has brought out the worst in me. I am truly sorry.
I used to think the Bible was the word of God and I often forced myself to think in that manner. But, no more! The more I read the Bible the the more I realize it is a very imperfect book.
The veneration of Mary does not bother me at all, because God is perfect and not jealous.
Hi Julian,
If you're okay with that, then who am I to tell you different. Each of us must give an account to God in the end. We each have to do what we believe is best.
I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings on this thread. If I was rude or disrespectful to any of you, please forgive me. That was never my intention. I have worked very hard to not be that way, but apparently, this topic has brought out the worst in me. I am truly sorry.
God Bless You All,
Katie
Katie:
You have never been unkind to me and I enjoy debating you. All of this is done for the sake of discussion and if I ran into you I would instantly congratulate you for your devotion to the Lord. I admire your tenacity and faith.
All of us have a different data base so we see things differently. What you say about Virgin Mary is logical from your point of view. I generally don't pray to the Virgin, but I know Catholics that do.
I generally don't pray to the Virgin, but the devotion to Mary is part of Catholicism and Catholicism is part of me. For some of us Catholicism is part of our cultural heritage and in that sense we are a bit like the Jews.
I would love to be able to accept that the bible is the infallible word of God but I can't. There are too many things that make me shake my head and I cannot get past the concept that the writings are aimed to people that lived 2000 years ago. I have privately discuss my concerns with the Bible with Jesuit priests and they privately agree with me.
We Catholics don't spend a lot of time reading the Bible unless we make a special effort to join a group that wants to study the Bible. Catholicism is based on other things and kids need Catechism.
In any event I believe God is much greater than what we see in the Bible. Many passages are colored by the weakness and prejudice of the men that wrote the bible.
I used to think the Bible was the word of God and I often forced myself to think in that manner. But, no more! The more I read the Bible the the more I realize it is a very imperfect book.
The veneration of Mary does not bother me at all, because God is perfect and not jealous.
Julian,
That's funny, because the more I read it, the deeper my faith in God becomes. I love the stories of the Bible. In my Sunday morning Bible class, we are learning about Elijah. There are some great lessons to be learned there.
So why do you think the Bible is an imperfect book? Just curious. From the very first time I picked up a Bible, I believed it was God's word. I never doubted a single word of it. I just accepted it. I think I have my Mother to thank for the faith I have today. And yes, my Mother was a catholic. But my memories of her are of a woman who relied on God for everything. She had such a strong prayer life, and I think that spilled over to me. She had and still has at age 94 tremendous faith in God.
I was just thinking. Did you know that Jesus quoted from the Old Testament many, many times? Every time He was attacked by the enemy, he would quote from the word of God. Remember when he was tempted in the wilderness? What did He say when He was tempted to turn the stones into bread? He said, "It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." So apparently, Jesus believed the scriptures were the word of God.
The word is our weapon against our enemies Julian. It is the sword of the Spirit. Eph. 6:17.
This morning, our preacher talked about how faith comes by hearing the word of God. He said from our faith comes a willingness to do what God desires for us to do. I thought of you while he was giving his lesson. He quoted from Psalm 119. If you're interested, read that Psalm. David, the little boy who killed the giant with five little stones wrote the Psalms, and in this particular Psalm, you will read how David felt about God's word. God's word was everything to David.
Hope you are having a great Sunday. The weather here is beautiful. Spring is in the air!
You have never been unkind to me and I enjoy debating you. All of this is done for the sake of discussion and if I ran into you I would instantly congratulate you for your devotion to the Lord. I admire your tenacity and faith.
All of us have a different data base so we see things differently. What you say about Virgin Mary is logical from your point of view. I generally don't pray to the Virgin, but I know Catholics that do.
I generally don't pray to the Virgin, but the devotion to Mary is part of Catholicism and Catholicism is part of me. For some of us Catholicism is part of our cultural heritage and in that sense we are a bit like the Jews.
I would love to be able to accept that the bible is the infallible word of God but I can't. There are too many things that make me shake my head and I cannot get past the concept that the writings are aimed to people that lived 2000 years ago. I have privately discuss my concerns with the Bible with Jesuit priests and they privately agree with me.
We Catholics don't spend a lot of time reading the Bible unless we make a special effort to join a group that wants to study the Bible. Catholicism is based on other things and kids need Catechism.
In any event I believe God is much greater than what we see in the Bible. Many passages are colored by the weakness and prejudice of the men that wrote the bible.
God Bless!
Thanks Julian. I'm glad I didn't hurt your feelings.
I understand what you are saying about culture and all. I get that. But you are truly missing out when you don't read the Bible. I would reccommend it to anyone. It certainly can't hurt you. There are such beautiful stories in there, and I believe it can do nothing except increase your faith in God. I know it did mine. There are many things in the Bible that you could read which are not controversial, the gospels for instance. I love Jesus' sermon on the mount. It warms my heart everytime I read it.
Something I try to do whenever I pick the Bible up to read it is ask God to give me the wisdom to understand His words and to open my heart up to Him. I just try to make His words apply to me and my life, how I treat others.
I'm not giving up on you friend. If you never do another thing for yourself in this life, pick up a Bible and read it. Like I said, it won't hurt you. Forget about whether or not it is inspired. Forget about all doctrine. Just read and let the Holy Spirit do His job. You will never regret it.
Sincerely,
Katie
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