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God's fine with your using the brain He gave you. He doesn't expect you to never question. Did you want to discuss the other questions you asked, or just this one?
Yes, I would love to know if other people have already answered these questions.
My thoughts are no, he is not angry. Simply because, I, a mere human have learned compassion and understanding. If someone were to question me, I would patiently answer and understand why they are asking. I would not get mad. So I figure God, the great architect, much greater than us....would also understand?
However......
I think I may have been influenced a little by a demon or something? Because my speech almost began to get really rebellious and I wanted to start cursing...I immediately caught myself and said wait a second...and rebuked all evil from my presence.
Alright, so I typed all of that and didn't say what I questioned God about ! Here is what I basically was saying :
- Why did God create us in the first place? Just a lonely God ? Wasn't happy with how his previous creation, the Angels, turned out? So make us....To put us through temptations, and then get angry at us for disobeying, inflicting and allowing suffering upon us.. so that we may grow in the Spirit, build character and wisdom, love others and live a life close to God? For what? So he can have a group of people in Heaven that really love Him, so he's not lonely or something? The Angels took God for granted, so God wanted to create a better companion, who "proves" themselves on this Earth?
- Why allow Satan to enter the garden of eden anyway? Because we are supposed to resist temptation on our own? Would any human mother allow their children to be tempted in the first place? What is with this obsession to make sure we are perfect?
- Why does the Devil/Satan hate humans so much? Shouldn't he sympathize with us? How is it our fault ? We are born ignorant, live a life full of ups and downs, pleasure and suffering, feel physical and emotional pain, and then die. We have no proof of God except our Faith in Him. At least Satan knows God exists and is eternal.... why hate us? We are innocent. Seems like Satan is a moron. If he wanted to be rebellious against the Creator, why the obsession with death, destruction, and deceit? Why not lead by example? Be a source of love, truth, and compassion, to "show" God what he thinks is a better way of ruling?
- It feels like we are victims in a universal play, of a lonely God with an ant farm. Any decent human, who witnesses another human subjecting other living things to suffering and pain for his own "master plan"/amusement/gratification... we would call him a sadist. Leave the poor creatures alone. So why does God get this pass on creating us, putting us on this world of suffering, and then get mad at us?
Anyway, I immediately prayed and asked God to forgive me if I have offended him, and that I come with a humble heart and a sincere heart. I wish to know the answers to these questions, and I realize I am only a human who knows nothing. But these questions bother me and I want to know why.
Do you think God will be angry at me or have I ventured farther away from God for talking like this?
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
God's fine with your using the brain He gave you. He doesn't expect you to never question. Did you want to discuss the other questions you asked, or just this one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtectYourHeart
Yes, I would love to know if other people have already answered these questions.
Hi ProtectYourHeart. I am happy to answer your questions.
1.) Why did God create us in the first place? There are two reasons why God created man. The first reason is to bring many sons into glory (Hebrews 2:10; Romans 8:29). The second reason is to resolve the angelic conflict which began when Lucifer (not his real name, but is commonly called that) rebelled against God before man was created. God sentenced Lucifer to the eternal lake of fire, but the sentence will not be carried out until the end of human history. God created man as a lower creation to the angels, and confined man to one place. Planet earth. Man has volition just as the angels did. God desired to demonstrate to the angels that if any member of the human race, inferior to the angels in every way, and never having been in heaven in the presence of God, could choose for God, then the angels who rebelled had no excuse for rebelling as one third of the angels did.
2.) Just a lonely God ? God cannot be lonely. That is absolutely impossible. His perfection is not capable of being lonely. God is one in His essence or nature, but is three in Person. The three Persons of the Godhead have eternally loved each other with perfect personal love.
3.) Wasn't happy with how his previous creation, the Angels, turned out? This relates to the angelic conflict. God had always known from eternity past that one third of the angels would rebel against Him, and that He would create man as a result. God desired that the angels and man would have volition so that they could choose for Him of their own volition. But in giving angels and man volition, God knew that there would be rebellion. He had to allow it to happen in order that volition be free to function. Knowing how everything in both angelic and human history would play out, He therefore established His plan, and is in full control while allowing human volition to play out.
4.) Why allow Satan to enter the garden of eden anyway? As part of the angelic conflict, man's volition had to be given something with which to work. Therefore God set the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and commanded Adam not to eat it. Satan (Lucifer) was allowed to tempt Adam to disobey God. He got to Adam through the woman who he was able to deceive.
You see, Satan is being allowed by God to (within the perimeters which God has established) do his best to deceive mankind and get man to disobey God. This again is for the purpose of man using his volition to choose for or against God. The most basic issue in the angelic conflict is mans volition.
5.) Why does the Devil/Satan hate humans so much? Because man was created to demonstrate that Satan was without excuse for rebelling against God. Satan still thinks (despite the fact the Jesus won the strategic victory over him at the cross) that he can get his sentence to the lake of fire overturned by for one thing, destroying the Jews so that God cannot fulfill His promises to them. If he can do that (which he cannot) and prevent God from keeping His promises to Israel, then he reasons that God would be less than perfect and would not therefore be just in carrying out his sentence against him.
If you wish to gain an understanding of the angelic conflict, please go to my thread on that subject.
Thank you so much for that response. I will read that thread in it's entirety and all the 5 parts.
However..... you didn't answer the moral dilemma we have here.
Is it OK, morally right, for a man to create an ant farm and submit them to suffering and death...to what basically equates to torture, so that his "plan" can be carried out? Unwilling subjects thrown into suffering, and then presented with "Do what I tell you or suffer some more after you die" ?? Any decent human being would call that man a sadist and tell him to leave the little creatures alone. So why do we give God a free pass to use us as guinea pigs in this universal stage?
How is that morally acceptable? "Because it's God" ?? "Because He offers you a way to salvation" ??? When given a choice between salvation and eternal suffering, how is that even a choice? and we are unwilling subjects. I, nor you, asked to be put to the test on this earth.
It seems like a complete abuse of power and it's wrong to create man to put us through this so He can see which one of us "pass the test"
Thank you so much for that response. I will read that thread in it's entirety and all the 5 parts.
However..... you didn't answer the moral dilemma we have here.
Is it OK, morally right, for a man to create an ant farm and submit them to suffering and death...to what basically equates to torture, so that his "plan" can be carried out? Unwilling subjects thrown into suffering, and then presented with "Do what I tell you or suffer some more after you die" ?? Any decent human being would call that man a sadist and tell him to leave the little creatures alone. So why do we give God a free pass to use us as guinea pigs in this universal stage?
How is that morally acceptable? "Because it's God" ?? "Because He offers you a way to salvation" ??? When given a choice between salvation and eternal suffering, how is that even a choice? and we are unwilling subjects. I, nor you, asked to be put to the test on this earth.
It seems like a complete abuse of power and it's wrong to create man to put us through this so He can see which one of us "pass the test"
We really don't know God. Religion is an approximation of God and that is all we have.
So your question remains a mystery and best answered with the concept of "free will". In other words a creation with free will allow us the opportunity to struggle or to make it independently of God. Any creation that is actively manipulated by God is an imperfect creation.
I would love to know if other people have already answered these questions.
Well, I'd be happy to answer them. Of course you must realize that my answers just reflect my own beliefs. You will likely get as many different answers to these questions as there are people who take the time to answer them.
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Originally Posted by ProtectYourHeart
Why did God create us in the first place? Just a lonely God ? Wasn't happy with how his previous creation, the Angels, turned out? So make us....To put us through temptations, and then get angry at us for disobeying, inflicting and allowing suffering upon us.. so that we may grow in the Spirit, build character and wisdom, love others and live a life close to God? For what? So he can have a group of people in Heaven that really love Him, so he's not lonely or something? The Angels took God for granted, so God wanted to create a better companion, who "proves" themselves on this Earth?
I believe that God created us for a 100% unselfish reason. He wanted to provide us with the opportunity to find joy and happiness and to reach our full potential as His sons and daughters. It wasn't for Him at all. It was for us.
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Why allow Satan to enter the garden of eden anyway? Because we are supposed to resist temptation on our own? Would any human mother allow their children to be tempted in the first place? What is with this obsession to make sure we are perfect?
I'm not sure you've thought this through. Prior to being tempted by Satan, Adam and Eve were in a constant state of bliss. But not having anything to compare their situation to, they had no way of appreciating how good it was. If you'd never been sick, would you truly understand what good health was? I don't think you'd have any idea at all. God wanted Adam and Eve to be able to progress, to learn, to come to understand that there is a need for opposition in all things. They had to learn to distinguish between good and evil if they were to ever learn to actually choose good. With respect to your comparison of God to a human mother, I think that any good mother would probably not want to protect her child to such an extent that the child was unable to grow into a capable adult. We have to have experiences in order to become like our Father in Heaven.
Quote:
Why does the Devil/Satan hate humans so much? Shouldn't he sympathize with us? How is it our fault ? We are born ignorant, live a life full of ups and downs, pleasure and suffering, feel physical and emotional pain, and then die. We have no proof of God except our Faith in Him. At least Satan knows God exists and is eternal.... why hate us? We are innocent. Seems like Satan is a moron. If he wanted to be rebellious against the Creator, why the obsession with death, destruction, and deceit? Why not lead by example? Be a source of love, truth, and compassion, to "show" God what he thinks is a better way of ruling?
I believe that he hates us because of jealousy. He knows that God loves us and wants us to return to Him someday. Satan will never return to be with God and he wants as much company as he can possibly have. Unlike God, his motives are 100% selfish.
Quote:
It feels like we are victims in a universal play, of a lonely God with an ant farm. Any decent human, who witnesses another human subjecting other living things to suffering and pain for his own "master plan"/amusement/gratification... we would call him a sadist. Leave the poor creatures alone. So why does God get this pass on creating us, putting us on this world of suffering, and then get mad at us?
This is kind of a brief answer to a very deep and thoughtful question. It makes me wonder if a little baby who is just learning to love and trust its mother might feel much the same way. He knows, at least to the degree an infant can, that his mother represents love, protection and comfort. She's always there for him to make things better. And then one day, she takes him to a complete stranger who pokes and prods him and then takes a huge needle and jams it into his little leg! Why would his mother allow this? Doesn't she love him? Can he no longer trust her? From the child's perspective, none of this makes sense. From the mother's perspective, there's a very good reason why the infant must be subjected to this painful experience. We're the babies. God is the loving parent.
If these answers help at all, I'll be very happy. I'd also be happy to elaborate on any of them if you'd like me to. You might also find this website worth reading. It addresses many of your questions.
Thank you so much for that response. I will read that thread in it's entirety and all the 5 parts.
However..... you didn't answer the moral dilemma we have here.
Is it OK, morally right, for a man to create an ant farm and submit them to suffering and death...to what basically equates to torture, so that his "plan" can be carried out? Unwilling subjects thrown into suffering, and then presented with "Do what I tell you or suffer some more after you die" ?? Any decent human being would call that man a sadist and tell him to leave the little creatures alone. So why do we give God a free pass to use us as guinea pigs in this universal stage?
How is that morally acceptable? "Because it's God" ?? "Because He offers you a way to salvation" ??? When given a choice between salvation and eternal suffering, how is that even a choice? and we are unwilling subjects. I, nor you, asked to be put to the test on this earth.
It seems like a complete abuse of power and it's wrong to create man to put us through this so He can see which one of us "pass the test"
ProtectYourHeart, I think you may enjoy this poem. To me it's a beautiful reassurance for anyone who has ever questioned (which probably includes most of us).
A Skeptic’s Prayer
Is it true
Thou lovest best
Thy meek, unasking children?
Thou has made us
So diverse, so various,
Yet in the image of a Sire
Who filled the universe
With His creative fire.
What father has supposed
His child would grow to manhood
Only hearing and affirming?
What man could honor such a son?
How could a mind that,
Like a Sponge,
Absorbs but never questions,
Doubts, or wonders why
Be offspring and apprentice
To a God?
It may be, Lord,
Thou canst never love me.
With the calm relief
a father feels
For his obedient child--
The one who’s never any trouble.
But use me
As a bridge
To those more wayward still
Than I.
I cannot give them all the answers;
But they will not ask
The ones who think they can.
Let me speak
To Thy lost sheep
As one who,
Understanding how they went
astray,
Still loves the Shepherd.
Thank you so much for that response. I will read that thread in it's entirety and all the 5 parts.
However..... you didn't answer the moral dilemma we have here.
Is it OK, morally right, for a man to create an ant farm and submit them to suffering and death...to what basically equates to torture, so that his "plan" can be carried out? Unwilling subjects thrown into suffering, and then presented with "Do what I tell you or suffer some more after you die" ?? Any decent human being would call that man a sadist and tell him to leave the little creatures alone. So why do we give God a free pass to use us as guinea pigs in this universal stage?
How is that morally acceptable? "Because it's God" ?? "Because He offers you a way to salvation" ??? When given a choice between salvation and eternal suffering, how is that even a choice? and we are unwilling subjects. I, nor you, asked to be put to the test on this earth.
It seems like a complete abuse of power and it's wrong to create man to put us through this so He can see which one of us "pass the test"
God's plan was not to cause either angel or man to rebel. He knew however, that volition would result in rebellion. He nevertheless made His decision to bring angels into existence and He did it. It's done. Things are as they are, and reality is what it is. Bringing up philosophical arguments of morality concerning God's actions is meaningless.
God is Sovereign and has the absolute right to do with His creation as He chooses. However, God does not act capriciously or with malice. All that He does is in accordance with His Perfect Holiness.
Suffering is a fact of life and has many different causes. You suffer because of your own bad decisions. You suffer because of other peoples bad decisions. You suffer because of things which are no ones fault. Things such as illness, or accidents.
The believer suffers because of divine discipline when he is disobedient. The obedient believer suffers for blessing, and for testing in the sense of spiritual exercise in order to put muscle on his faith. God can only bless the believer through suffering in time, because for the believer there will be no suffering in eternity.
2 Corinthians 4:17 'For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, 18] while we look not at the things which are seen; but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Romans 8:18 'For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
But for the unbeliever, his punishment will be the same as the angels who rebelled (Matthew 25:41).
God's absolute Perfect Righteousness simply CANNOT permit God to bring into an eternal relationship with Him any creature that has a righteousness that is less than Perfect. For that reason, the unbeliever who has only his own human and relative righteousness must be eternally separated from God if he dies without ever having received Jesus Christ as Savior.
Eternal life involves not only endless existence, but also quality of life in that the believer will be in the presence of God and enjoying the blessings which are associated with that.
On the other hand, eternal separation from God means that there can be no blessing, but only the eternal misery which is associated with that separation. But God also imposes punishment. Apparently there will be degrees of punishment in that place called the lake of fire.
God chose to create angels and man with volition. That means that the wrong use of that volition by angel and man has consequences associated with bad volitional choices. The ultimate consequence is eternity in the lake of fire. Again, things are as they are by God's Sovereign decision.
God says, 'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,''declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8)
No, we did not ask to be here. We did not exist and so could not have asked. But having been brought into being, we ARE here. And we can either choose for God, or choose against God. And the ramifications of that choice are eternal in scope.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-23-2012 at 12:39 PM..
What a strange god it would be who would create one being who would hate the other beings he created. Then give that being some sort of "restrained" power to go on hating and causing misery and suffering and temptations to pull these other little beings into some fiery inferno for eternity. All the while this god sits on the sidelines, apparently helpless as he sorrows over those who end up in the fiery inferno.
The human mind concocts all types of dark fantasies when it turns away from love.
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Did you want to discuss the other questions you asked, or just this one?
