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Thank you so much for that response. I will read that thread in it's entirety and all the 5 parts.
However..... you didn't answer the moral dilemma we have here.
Is it OK, morally right, for a man to create an ant farm and submit them to suffering and death...to what basically equates to torture, so that his "plan" can be carried out? Unwilling subjects thrown into suffering, and then presented with "Do what I tell you or suffer some more after you die" ?? Any decent human being would call that man a sadist and tell him to leave the little creatures alone. So why do we give God a free pass to use us as guinea pigs in this universal stage?
How is that morally acceptable? "Because it's God" ?? "Because He offers you a way to salvation" ??? When given a choice between salvation and eternal suffering, how is that even a choice? and we are unwilling subjects. I, nor you, asked to be put to the test on this earth.
It seems like a complete abuse of power and it's wrong to create man to put us through this so He can see which one of us "pass the test"
That is exactly correct... God didn't create us to see which one of us "pass the test". But that is what work righteousness does, it puts the focus on one own's efforts.
What's even worse about "pass the test" belief system is that forgiveness ends up being conditional. Imagine knowing that under such belief that it could take centuries before you had the assuredness of forgiveness.
As somebody else commented about reading Job. He finally concluded that he had the kahuna's to question God for his allowing whatever was happening to him as being unfair.... which of course God had th elast word about that stupidity.
Try to keep in mind that when you hear from people who disregard the Bible or think that there must be more out there that would just fill in the blanks. God doesn't tolerate peering eyes into his omnscience from those who believe... one can't imagine the reaction by God to those who reject him.
Man was God creation to be His Children and be one with the Lord God , But the devil did not like the fact man was chosen , so the devil hates God and he hate human , So there is not mercy for the devil and his fallen angels and the Blessing of Lord Jesus who died on the cross Judgment for man who rejects the devil and his fallen angel and demons can be saved and because of Man rejection and turn from sin and turn to Jesus Christ....God does not hate you , but if your reason rejects faith in Jesus and you deny the name of Jesus , then you can be under the authority of the devil were you surely do not want to be ...So If you are questioning God you need to tell God that the truth is were your heart is and you are just learning , so give me your spirit so the truth will bring your life to me so I will be in the know and learn to love you ....Be Blessed ...
What a strange god it would be who would create one being who would hate the other beings he created. Then give that being some sort of "restrained" power to go on hating and causing misery and suffering and temptations to pull these other little beings into some fiery inferno for eternity. All the while this god sits on the sidelines, apparently helpless as he sorrows over those who end up in the fiery inferno.
The human mind concocts all types of dark fantasies when it turns away from love.
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
OP:
There is no such thing as Satan.
Satan is a figure of speech to describe the evil within us (since we have free will).
DO not apply theology that is 2000 years old.
Amen again! We have to outgrow the savage imaginations of our ignorant and superstitious ancestors. After 2000+ years it is about time, don't you think???
How can you call yourself a Christian when Jesus Christ himself acknowledges the existence of Satan? He was tempted by Satan himself.
Paul said that we do not do battle with flesh and blood, but with spiritual adversaries. We fight against evil principalities and demons.
I am not sure where you guys believe that Satan does not exist, but in my opinion, that is exactly what Satan wants. To make you believe he's not real.
oh, and Demons do influence men and do not have to "possess" you. Look at Jesus rebuking Peter. Jesus didn't scorn Peter, he went right to the source and rebuked Satan by name. Satan tried to quickly influence Peter and make him selfish, to dissuade Christ from doing the Father's will.
Hi, I don't believe that God is angry at you. God is love and He understands us even before we come to Him with our questions and feelings. I believe that He wants you to come to Him with your questions and that He will answer them in His time. Take care and God bless.
Hello ProtectYourHeart ,
This is one of the best questions I've seen in a very long time. Here is my perspective, I hope it helps you over on your path:
In my opinion, I absolutely do NOT think that God is angry. I think God is very pleased. Do you know why I say this? Because you are in actuality, following the FIRST of the TWO great commands. To love God with all of your heart, mind and soul.
It's true. How do we LOVE God with all of our heart, mind and soul, if we do not KNOW Him. If we have not yet begun to understand His character? Of course we cannot! It's impossible.
And that is part of the reason why I've come to believe that this first command is not for God's benefit. It most definitely is NOT because God NEEDS worship. It is because God wants us to KNOW Him. This command is for OUR benefit. Imagine that. We CANNOT love Him if we do not KNOW Him. So many misunderstand this command. So many use it as a weapon against others, to point out their sins and say "you do not love God!". It's a very sad perspective that some have of our Creator. It's very sad when people are too afraid to question God. Perfect love casts out all fear. God IS Love. When we question, we are seeking.
This first command, I am convinced, is a push for us to QUESTION and PONDER and PRAY and SEEK HIM OUT. Of COURSE you are to QUESTION the Creator! Of course you are. That is what He wants from His children. He wants us to DISCOVER Him. Discover who He really, truly IS.
When I was a teenager, my mother died. Long story short, after this event, I used to tell God out loud how much I hated him. I cussed Him out and ranted about how much hatred I had for Him for taking my mother away. It almost ended up as some kind of strange therapy. Telling God how much I hated Him. Then I pushed God out of my mind.
Well, y'know what... many years later I started to question. Question everything. Just like you are doing right now. My path finally led me to a place where I am 100% secure in His goodness. 100% secure that He is in fact, who He claims to be: LOVE. God IS Love. And my own personal journey led me to a place where I am secure of His love for ALL mankind. We are all in the palm of His hand. No matter how difficult this short life may be. We are all going to be ok.
I look back now and see my teenage self, so full of fear and anger and I can now see a Creator who was looking down on that teenager and wrapping me in His love. Even through all of my "I HATE YOU GOD!" rants. Such a little thing, isn't it? Those rants? My mother just died, in my mind I thought God should have somehow prevented it, I'm in pain. And someone will try to make you believe that God was angry with me for saying I hated Him. Or angry that I cussed at Him because of that immense pain? How little and weak God would be to be offended at such a thing. No, God is much more powerful than that. God IS Love. Did He NOT understand my pain was rooted in the LOVE that I had for my mother? Of course He did.
God's command is a PUSH. There are many things that religion tries to stick to God and say "This is what God is like" but most of those things, you may discover, do not stick, they fall to the floor. The more you question with your heart, and listen for the answers IN YOUR HEART, I think the more you will know Him. You know when you feel compassion for another human being.. and you feel that in your heart? This is what I'm talking about. Listen to what He is speaking to you through your heart.
1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. God IS Love. What is love? 1 corinthians 13 is a good place to start in your quest for understanding, in my opinion.
Keep questioning. That's the only way you'll ever find any answers.
And I hope that you do find the answers you are looking for.
Peace and much much love to you,
sparrow
p.s. The love I have for my mother has only grown stronger and deeper through the years. Love never ends.
My thoughts are no, he is not angry. Simply because, I, a mere human have learned compassion and understanding. If someone were to question me, I would patiently answer and understand why they are asking. I would not get mad. So I figure God, the great architect, much greater than us....would also understand?
However......
I think I may have been influenced a little by a demon or something? Because my speech almost began to get really rebellious and I wanted to start cursing...I immediately caught myself and said wait a second...and rebuked all evil from my presence.
Alright, so I typed all of that and didn't say what I questioned God about ! Here is what I basically was saying :
- Why did God create us in the first place? Just a lonely God ? Wasn't happy with how his previous creation, the Angels, turned out? So make us....To put us through temptations, and then get angry at us for disobeying, inflicting and allowing suffering upon us.. so that we may grow in the Spirit, build character and wisdom, love others and live a life close to God? For what? So he can have a group of people in Heaven that really love Him, so he's not lonely or something? The Angels took God for granted, so God wanted to create a better companion, who "proves" themselves on this Earth?
- Why allow Satan to enter the garden of eden anyway? Because we are supposed to resist temptation on our own? Would any human mother allow their children to be tempted in the first place? What is with this obsession to make sure we are perfect?
- Why does the Devil/Satan hate humans so much? Shouldn't he sympathize with us? How is it our fault ? We are born ignorant, live a life full of ups and downs, pleasure and suffering, feel physical and emotional pain, and then die. We have no proof of God except our Faith in Him. At least Satan knows God exists and is eternal.... why hate us? We are innocent. Seems like Satan is a moron. If he wanted to be rebellious against the Creator, why the obsession with death, destruction, and deceit? Why not lead by example? Be a source of love, truth, and compassion, to "show" God what he thinks is a better way of ruling?
- It feels like we are victims in a universal play, of a lonely God with an ant farm. Any decent human, who witnesses another human subjecting other living things to suffering and pain for his own "master plan"/amusement/gratification... we would call him a sadist. Leave the poor creatures alone. So why does God get this pass on creating us, putting us on this world of suffering, and then get mad at us?
Anyway, I immediately prayed and asked God to forgive me if I have offended him, and that I come with a humble heart and a sincere heart. I wish to know the answers to these questions, and I realize I am only a human who knows nothing. But these questions bother me and I want to know why.
Do you think God will be angry at me or have I ventured farther away from God for talking like this?
No, God is not angry at you for asking questions. Questions are how we get to closer to understanding the truth, and that is something God wants us to do.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
We need to search things out and not just accept what we have been told. We need to question.
But in short, no we are not just a giant ant farm for God's amusement. God is actually doing this all for our benefit. For the benefit of all human beings. If you can grasp that, you will be one step closer to understanding the truth.
But in short, no we are not just a giant ant farm for God's amusement. God is actually doing this all for our benefit. For the benefit of all human beings. If you can grasp that, you will be one step closer to understanding the truth.
Amen. God bless and peace.
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