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Yes there were pagan mimics of the so-called trinty ( the later being a catch all term by the catholic church) and a term that pretty much convey's what God has communicated either directly or via Jesus and ministers of the word. God said in Genesis "Let US (US US US) point of empahsis for poor listeners or who are in la la land. make man in OUR (OUR OUR OUR) point of emph...oh stop wise guy!!! image. God has three roles,manifestations,persons oops religion there ...it's ok) and of course the Godhead. One thing most people never seem to "get" or pay attention pehaps not taught is that the Godhead according to ...God (hellloooo!) is a "mystery" and although can (not always) be revealed to a believer IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR UNDERSTANDING TO UNBELIVERS!!!!!!!! NOT NOT NOT! so don't lose your precious mind with unbelievers who refuse to believe first (a prerequisite) your spinning your wheels!!! Keep witnessing and be sure to be prepared to explain this mystery ot you to will be a fool! Somebody needs to write a book "Godhead for Dummies!
Yes there were pagan mimics of the so-called trinty ( the later being a catch all term by the catholic church) and a term that pretty much convey's what God has communicated either directly or via Jesus and ministers of the word. God said in Genesis "Let US (US US US) point of empahsis for poor listeners or who are in la la land. make man in OUR (OUR OUR OUR) point of emph...oh stop wise guy!!! image.Das
RESPONSE:
"US, US, US" Didn't angels or other spiritual beings exist at the time of man's creation?
Last edited by ancient warrior; 03-10-2012 at 08:34 AM..
Reason: typo
Yes there were pagan mimics of the so-called trinty ( the later being a catch all term by the catholic church) and a term that pretty much convey's what God has communicated either directly ,via Jesus or ministers of the word..
God said in Genesis "Let US (US US US) point of empahsis for poor listeners or who are in la la land. make man
in OUR (OUR OUR OUR) point of emph...oh stop wise guy!!! image. God has three roles,manifestations,persons oops religion there ...it's ok) and of course the Godhead. One thinks most people never seem to "get" or pay attention to or are not taught is that the Godhead according to ...God (hellloooo!) is a mystery and although can
be revealed to a believer IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR UNDERSTANDING TO UNBELIVERS!!!!!!!! NOT NOT NOT!
so don't lose your precious mind with unbelievers who refuse to believe first (a prerequisite) your spinning your wheels although keep witnessing. Somebody needs to write a book Godhead for dummies!
Das
Since the scripture in Colossians 1 explains that Jesus was the firstborn of ALL creation, and then all things were created through him and for him:
He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
...it doesn't seem to be a mystery why Genesis says, "us" and "our".
If I set out the ingredients and instruct my daughter as she puts the ingredients together to make a cake, I too would say, "okay, now let's take the flour...now we need to set the oven". I would hope that no one would reason that my daughter and I are one in the same...talking to ourself.
Hi, I don't believe that anyone is to be worshipped as the Supreme God except for the Supreme God, who is the One and Only True God. This God is the Head of Jesus Christ who is His Son and who reveals Him. He is the God of Jesus. This God gave Jesus the name above every name and so I know that they are not on the same level. One who is Supreme cannot be given anything by anyone because He already has it. Jesus is the exact image of the Supreme invisible God so that we can know who He is. Jesus serves the One and Only True God and this God highly exalted Him. Jesus is our Lord although He existed in the form of God. There is Only One True God, the God that Jesus came to reveal to us.
1 Corinthians 8
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that [a]there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is butone God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
"
John 17
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to [a]all whom You have given Him, He may give *eternal life. 3 This is *eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth, [b]having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. "
*eternal=aionios
Jesus always points us to the One and Only True God, His God and Father.
God bless and peace.
RESPONSE:
1 Cor 8 "...as indeed there are many gods and many lords,..."? What is this admitting about religious beliefs at that time?
John 17 " This is *eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,andJesus Christ whom You have sent."
So the writers of John accept that there are other Gods but only one true "God." And apparently Jesus Christ is a separate entity whom ccan be "sent."
Last edited by ancient warrior; 03-10-2012 at 08:41 AM..
Reason: typo
No. Only God would be worthy of worship; never a created being.
I am not a Jehovah's Witness, and I don't believe that the NWT is the best bible available. I prefer the New Revised Standard Veersion (World)Council of Churches sponsored) or the New American Bible (Catholic).
In short I like unaltered translations made from the oldest versions available translated from the original language.
RSV-And the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
KJV-And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
I thought this scripture was appropriate to add to this discussion. Just can't articulate my reasoning at this moment, lol. I know what I'm thinking...but I can't type it so that it would make sense! Blaaghhhh
"the word “God” is applicable to any powerful being, but it applies only to Yahweh as the exclusive source of all power – the Almighty Yahweh, and is thus used in relative terms of others..we can say that there is much in the way of Hebraic cultural heritage that supports the idea that one can be scripturally be called or have the title of “God” in a sense other than that of Supreme Being,"
I am not a Jehovah's Witness but this is a good study for anyone interested-
Isaiah 45:22
“Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
Isaiah 46:9 I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me
Isaiah 44:8 Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Your kinda fooling yourself to claim on the one hand "I believe Jesus is God" then yet not to connect Jesus as the "God" in Isaiah 45:22.
and then have it said about Jesus:
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” (compare to Isaiah 45:22)
1 Corinthians 10:3-4
"They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."
(compare Isaiah 44:8)
I don't think you get what I'm saying. You can quote every scripture that refers to Jesus as God, and I will agree with you.
All I'm asking is, is there scripture that says one must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved, or is there only the scripture that says one must believe Jesus is Lord to be saved?
If believing Jesus is God is so important, wouldn't that scripture have said, he that confesses with his mouth Jesus is God...?
If there is no scripture that actually says this, but you're saying common sense says that since scripture shows Jesus is God, and salvation comes through Jesus, then one must believe Jesus is God to be saved... I can deal with that.
I was just wondering if there is scripture that actually says something to the effect of, you must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved.
Since the scripture in Colossians 1 explains that Jesus was the firstborn of ALL creation, and then all things were created through him and for him:
He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
...it doesn't seem to be a mystery why Genesis says, "us" and "our".
If I set out the ingredients and instruct my daughter as she puts the ingredients together to make a cake, I too would say, "okay, now let's take the flour...now we need to set the oven". I would hope that no one would reason that my daughter and I are one in the same...talking to ourself.
No, but it would prove that your daughter was there with you. That's the point of Genesis. Jesus was there with Him in the beginning.
1. Since you translate John 1:1 as the Word was a god, do you believe Jesus is a god? If so, how do you deal with that fact? If not, then what does this scripture mean?
2. Jesus was worshiped while on the earth. Did He deserve it? Does He deserve it now?
3. Since the Watchtower used to teach that it was ok for Jesus to be worshiped, but changed their mind in the 1950s, what happens to all the Witnesses before then that worshiped Jesus?
Thanks!
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