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The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly inhospitable, but you seriously believe that God destroyed those cities for that alone?
Ezekiel 16:49-50 tells us, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..."
The Hebrew word 'detestable' means morally disgusting. I have serious doubt that being inhospitable would be morally disgusting to God, and that it would cause Him to destroy entire cities. Ironic that both S&G are wastelands today. Perhaps a reminder for us to take heed of their sins?
There are many ways to show inhospitality. You can spit on a persons face, you can punch them, stab them with a knife, shoot them, club them, or like in the case of Sodom, you can commit homosexual acts on them against their will.
If someone is not comfortable calling it for what it is, then they can call it something else like simply "inhospitality". I call murder murder, and forced gay sex forced gay sex, but maybe that's just me. I call things what they are.
I have read the previous chapter and previous posts, and I have seen similar attempts coming from gays and pro-gay people. God destroyed the cities because of their sins, namely homosexual acts. A male trying to rape another male is a homosexual act, and the Bible makes it abundantly clear that gay sex is a perversion and an abomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
Amen, Finn !!
It is amazing how ppl dance around the truth of God....., it is what it is They'll see and know it for what it says one day, rather then what they want it to say... amen !!
Hi Finn and CM. Yes people do indeed dance around the truth. I haven't read any of this thread except for the last few posts, so I don't know if this has mentioned already, but Jude 6-7 also makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Hi Finn and CM. Yes people do indeed dance around the truth. I haven't read any of this thread except for the last few posts, so I don't know if this has mentioned already, but Jude 6-7 also makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
"The extremity of fallen Angels is pure fanaticism."
You must be making an assumption that "all the people"
from "every quarter" were only of the male gender!
Hi Finn and CM. Yes people do indeed dance around the truth. I haven't read any of this thread except for the last few posts, so I don't know if this has mentioned already, but Jude 6-7 also makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
That is absurd. Strange (heteros) flesh efers to that which is NOT of the same kind . . . more specifically at that time bestiality . . . NOT same sex relationships. You should recognize the root for heterosexual in the word strange (heteros).
That is absurd. Strange (heteros) flesh efers to that which is NOT of the same kind . . . more specifically at that time bestiality . . . NOT same sex relationships. You should recognize the root for heterosexual in the word strange (heteros).
The reference is to homosexuality as shown in Genesis 19:5-8.
Jude 6-7 makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Homosexual sex is unnatural. It is against God's design. Beastiality was doubtless practiced as well. The men of Sodom however, as shown in Gen 19 attempted to engage in homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Just as it was unnatural for angels to have sex with human females as recorded in Gen 6, it is unnatural for men to have sex with other men.
The reference is to homosexuality as shown in Genesis 19:5-8.
Jude 6-7 makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Homosexual sex is unnatural. It is against God's design. Beastiality was doubtless practiced as well. The men of Sodom however, as shown in Gen 19 attempted to engage in homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Just as it was unnatural for angels to have sex with human females as recorded in Gen 6, it is unnatural for men to have sex with other men.
The reference is to homosexuality as shown in Genesis 19:5-8.
Jude 6-7 makes clear that the reason that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrrah was because of their gross immorality and going after strange flesh, meaning that which is contrary to nature. Jude 7 compares Sodom's sins with the sin of the rebellious angels (Jude 6) who did not keep their own estate, but went after strange flesh (human females), which is recorded in Genesis chapter 6 and which produced the Nephilim for which reason God brought the flood.
In the case of Sodom, the strange flesh is a reference to homosexual sex. All anyone has to do is look at Genesis 19:5-8 to understand that the men of Sodom wanted to have homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Homosexual sex is unnatural. It is against God's design. Beastiality was doubtless practiced as well. The men of Sodom however, as shown in Gen 19 attempted to engage in homosexual relations with the angels they thought to be men.
Just as it was unnatural for angels to have sex with human females as recorded in Gen 6, it is unnatural for men to have sex with other men.
Mike - I don't think many people (besides Fundamentalist Christians) care what the Book of Jude has to say about the story. It was written far too late to have absolutely any bearing on it, and by that time it had picked up the traditional view that had become popular. Jude is just reflecting tradition, NOT traditum.
If we want to use late sources, then re-read the verses from the Wisdom of Solomon I posted.
Jude.... Next you'll be using Dante to interpret Jude. And then Stephen King to tell us what Dante meant. See how that works there? Traditio vs traditum?
Your scholarship is casting pearls, whoppers. Frustration is inevitable when trying to reason with unreasoning credulity. There is a different intellectual dynamic at work around these issues that evades reason and rationality. It is emotion-based and its actual psychological basis eludes me. The antipathy to homosexuality is particularly rigid and too deep-rooted to be the result of religious prohibitions or a Sodom and Gomorrah fable.
Don't take personal offense at being presumed a homosexual for trying to enlighten them about Sodom and Gomorrah, whoppers. The psychological antipathy is so strong they cannot imagine anyone even appearing to defend homosexuality if they are not one. It is the unavoidable bigotry of ignorance and intolerance.
Yes, you're right. Nice post. I've been trying to stay away from this thread, because it just shows the usual Fundamentalist tripe. I didn't take personal offense at the accusation - I was just surprised that people STILL use that logical fallacy in argumentation. I shouldn't be surprised, though. You're right heh heh! This is why scholar Ronald Hendel wrote his paper about how the Society of Biblical Literature was losing all credibility since it was opening its doors to Fundamentalists, because they needed money. They didn't need the opinions of Fundies, just their money. He writes:
[i]nstead of distinguished academic organizations like ASOR and AAR in the fold, we now have fundamentalist groups like the Society of Pentecostal Studies and the Adventist Society for Religious Studies as our intimate partners. These groups now hold SBL sessions at the annual meeting....
[Summing up some of Pascal's words]: That is to say, facts are facts, and faith has no business dealing in the world of facts.
Unfortunately, the fact that these groups were presenting and reading papers at the SBL -long known for being scholarly and reliable - showed a degredation of the institution. Instead of facts being presents, it wold just be faith-based interpretations - as above, from Pascal.
Check out his article, if you can find it. I cannot at the moment. It concerns him letting his Society of Biblical Literature membership lapse.
Amen, Finn !!
It is amazing how ppl dance around the truth of God....., it is what it is They'll see and know it for what it says one day, rather then what they want it to say... amen !!
Mike - I don't think many people (besides Fundamentalist Christians) care what the Book of Jude has to say about the story. It was written far too late to have absolutely any bearing on it, and by that time it had picked up the traditional view that had become popular. Jude is just reflecting tradition, NOT traditum.
If we want to use late sources, then re-read the verses from the Wisdom of Solomon I posted.
Jude.... Next you'll be using Dante to interpret Jude. And then Stephen King to tell us what Dante meant. See how that works there? Traditio vs traditum?
I am not interested in the views and opinions of unbelievers and secular liberals.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-15-2012 at 08:45 AM..
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They'll see and know it for what it says one day, rather then what they want it to say... amen !!
