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Old 03-11-2012, 09:39 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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John 2:19 -22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.

The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. "
Seeing is believing but "blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed."

Thank you my LORD Jesus and I, like Thomas who fell to his knees and worshipped saying "My Lord and my God!" , thank you for giving me the eyes of faith to see that you are also my LORD and my God.

And Lord.. turn the people’s heart that has become calloused; because "they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes".
Lord may "they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn" for you will heal them.

Last edited by twin.spin; 03-11-2012 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,434 posts, read 29,598,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
John 2:19 -22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.

The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. "
Seeing is believing but "blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed."

Thank you my LORD Jesus and I, like Thomas who fell to his knees and worshipped saying "My Lord and my God!" , thank you for giving me the eyes of faith to see that you are also my LORD and my God.

And Lord.. turn the people’s heart that has become calloused; because "they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes".
Lord may "they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn" for you will heal them.
Jesus was not talking about the temple made of stones, but about His body. He so perfectly fulfilled this prediction and it is the strongest proof for His claims to be God.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,056,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
John 2:19 -22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.

The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. "
Seeing is believing but "blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed."

Thank you my LORD Jesus and I, like Thomas who fell to his knees and worshipped saying "My Lord and my God!" , thank you for giving me the eyes of faith to see that you are also my LORD and my God.

And Lord.. turn the people’s heart that has become calloused; because "they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes".
Lord may "they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn" for you will heal them.
Amen, Twin !! It is a beautiful thing to be given the faith of this blessed revelation... in knowing and seeing our Lord and Savior Jesus is our Mighty God....

Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Jesus was not talking about the temple made of stones, but about His body. He so perfectly fulfilled this prediction and it is the strongest proof for His claims to be God.
Amen, ILNC !!
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,584,006 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
John 2:19 -22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.

The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. "
Seeing is believing but "blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed."

Thank you my LORD Jesus and I, like Thomas who fell to his knees and worshipped saying "My Lord and my God!" , thank you for giving me the eyes of faith to see that you are also my LORD and my God.

And Lord.. turn the people’s heart that has become calloused; because "they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes".
Lord may "they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn" for you will heal them.
Yes, the temple is his body. And we are that body and temple - we are members of Christ's body. Do you believe that? If so, it should change the way you treat every person on the planet. This involves self-examination to know whether one is "worthy" of partaking of the body and blood of the Lord. Or do you despise Christ as he stands in your midst by rejecting him in your brethren in desiring to separate yourself from those you deem unworthy? I pray that you be granted to understand these words.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:54 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,047,779 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
John 2:19 -22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.

The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. "
Seeing is believing but "blessed are they who have not seen and yet believed."

Thank you my LORD Jesus and I, like Thomas who fell to his knees and worshipped saying "My Lord and my God!" , thank you for giving me the eyes of faith to see that you are also my LORD and my God.

And Lord.. turn the people’s heart that has become calloused; because "they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes".
Lord may "they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn" for you will heal them.

Amen!
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:17 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,319 posts, read 20,050,950 times
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It is very easy Twin to understand. Jesus said "if you have seen me(not a body/temple), you have seen the Father (God)".

He(not a man with a beard and long hair) is the exact representation of who God is. Hebrews 1:3
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:00 AM
 
Location: USA
3,088 posts, read 1,069,445 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
The bodily ressurection of Jesus proved Jesus' claim.... he is Jehovah God.
The resurrection of Jesus from the dead would certainly prove that God was involved, at the very least. It is a rather unbelievable claim though I am afraid. Not everyone is thoroughly convinced. Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-13-2012 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: use dm for private conversations, invites, etc OK?
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:09 AM
 
20,333 posts, read 15,709,470 times
Reputation: 7472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The resurrection of Jesus from the dead would certainly prove that God was involved, at the very least. It is a rather unbelievable claim though I am afraid. Not everyone is thoroughly convinced. Moderator cut: orphaned
Here is the evidence of Jesus' resurrection from the dead!!! Open your eyes to this.

Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ - Top Ten Proofs

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/...les/josh2.html

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-13-2012 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:11 AM
 
34,925 posts, read 9,030,391 times
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Moderator cut: orphaned post

I had a look at the top ten 'proofs' actually they are some questions and proof of nothing. And I only made it Nine.

1. If Jesus did not actually rise from the dead, why did the disciples go from frightened, timid followers of Jesus before his death, to bold evangelists willing to die preaching his resurrection if they just really made the whole thing up and he was still dead? Remember, before Jesus was crucified, the disciples were, for the most part, cowards. Peter denied even knowing Jesus 3 times before the crucifixion. What event changed them from cowards to courageous? Answer: They must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

That timid to bold scenario is based only on Acts, written by Luke, who is unreliable (his Census explanation of Jesus' Bethlem origins is quite unhistorical) and also a liar (he blames the Jews trying to kill Paul for his escape from Damascus whereas Paul says that he escaped from the approaching army of Aretas. In fact the whole account of the trial, crucifixion and the disciples' behaviour is open to question.

(2) Why were the disciples willing to be tortured and killed for a known lie? You don’t need a degree in human psychology to know that people do not die for a cause they know to be false. People do certainly die for false beliefs all the time, but they think they are dying for the truth. If the disciples faked the resurrection, they would know Christianity is a lie. History records they were tortured and killed for their faith, and not one of them said, under torture “okay, okay, we made the whole thing up”? Why is that? Answer: They must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

If there was a hoax, the 'twelve' didn't need to have done it, but they didn't need a hoax, they didn't need a bodily resurrection and they didn't believe Christianity. The stories of their martyrdoms are doubtful and they look more like political killings anyway. Luke's account is not to be trusted and Paul's feelings of persecution were based more on his spiritual resurrection doctrine and his adaptation of it to discredit Jewish law - which would offend the Jews, of course, including the apostles.

(3) Why would they make up the resurrection story if Jesus turned out to be a fraud? Remember, Jesus told them he would rise after 3 days. If he was still dead on day four, that means he wasn’t who he claimed he was, he wasn’t the Messiah and certainly wasn’t God after all, so why would the disciples worship a dead guy who lied to them and was exposed as a fraud? Answer: They must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

They didn't. The resurrection story was made up by Paulinist Christians. The apostles did not write the gospels.

(4) What was their motive? Lies or deceptions are typically done for some selfish motive. Preaching the resurrection of Jesus would not bring them wealth, fame, status or popularity. It would only cause them to be hated, scorned, persecuted, excommunicated, imprisoned, exiled, beheaded, tortured and crucified, as history records, so again, what could possibly be their motive? Just to save face? That’s certainly not logical. No one is going to go through what the disciples went through just because they’re too embarrassed to say “I guess we were wrong”, so what was their motive? Answer: It was the TRUTH. They must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

The actual apostles believed (as did Paul) that Jesus had ascended to heaven in the spirit and would come again and inhabit a human body as even the gospels show, though they were well on the way to the Jesus = God belief of later Christianity. Even the most Jesus is divine writer -John said that while you saw God if you looked at Jesus, he could do nothing (miraculous) by himself.

(5) How do the disciples, 12 ordinary people pull off such a hoax? Remember, this “hoax” would trigger thousands of skeptics per day to convert to following their scam as well as redirect the entire world to even eventually change their calendars and establish their hoax character, Jesus as the best known religious figure in all of humanity. How could they pull something like this off without ever getting exposed, offering a death bed confession or even admitting it was a hoax under torture? Answer: It must not be a hoax. They must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the resurrection stories have any element of truth,the obvious answer is that the ones to engineer the hoax are Arimathea and Nicodemus. If they removed the body as part of a hoax of course they wouldn't tell the disciples and give the plot away.

(6) Why would thousands of people immediately convert if Jesus didn’t actually rise from the dead? Think about it. History records that thousands upon thousands were instantly and immediately mass converting to be followers of Jesus, as many as 3000 in a day. It is recorded that after the crucifixion, Jesus appeared alive over a span of 40 days and to “500 brethren”. (Back then, only men were counted in crowd totals, so factoring in women and children, Jesus most likely appeared to safely 1500 to 2000 people over 40 days). If that many people saw Jesus alive, it would explain how so many were converting because even the most hardened skeptics would have crowds and crowds of former skeptics saying “yes, it’s true, we all have seen him too”, but if no one saw him alive and the crowds had only the words of the disciples to go by, why would thousands convert? Remember, the disciples were preaching to many who didn’t want to believe Jesus was the Messiah, so what words could they speak to hostile crowds to convince them Jesus really did rise from the dead? “Trust us”? That might convince some of the disciple’s closest friends, but not thousands upon thousands of skeptics. So why did thousands convert? Answer: Crowds must have actually seen the risen Jesus.

I don't think that history really supports this. Paul reports Jesus appearing in people's heads, just as Jesus appeared in his own head - he never claimed to see a solid Jesus (even when he ascended into the Third heaven to chat with Jesus, it was in the spirit). These 500 were the Jewish followers of Jesus and needed only to believe that the spirit had gone back to heaven. The Gentile conversions (as Paul's letters show) took more time and while conversions to the new cult could be large, there was a lot of backsliding. Nevertheless the cult had a lot of appeal to people who never actually saw Jesus or spoke to anyone who had. The success of the new Faith in no way proves that Jesus' body got up and walked.

(7)Why did the disciples make themselves look bad in the Gospels? Think about it, if you were going to make up a story, wouldn’t you present yourself in somewhat of a positive light? The disciples painted themselves as sniveling cowards lacking in faith. Why? Answer: They must have been telling the truth.

They didn't. The Paulinist Christians who wrote the synoptic original and John who adapted his (evidently written) source had no love of Jews and thus had a very ambivalent attitude towards the disciples. Their close relations with Jesus could not be denied, but their feeble faith and unreliability is shown in equal measure with their accomplishments and faithfulness. It is after the story Ends that Luke can magically transform these flawed Jews into perfect Christians.

(8) How did Saul of Tarsus, the chief persecutor of Christians convert to become the Apostle Paul, the chief follower of Jesus if he didn’t really have an encounter with a risen Jesus? Logically, if Jesus didn’t really rise from the dead, Saul would just gloat in his victory, exposing Jesus as a fraud who couldn’t conquer death after all, so what event could have caused him to convert? Answer: He must have actually encountered the risen Jesus as recorded.

If so, he doesn't say so. The fact that he didn't see the risen (solid) Jesus (just the voice in his head according to Luke and Paul doesn't actually confirm that story) and yet converted sorta upsets the contention here that no- one would convert who hadn't actually witnessed the resurrection.In fact the implied suggestion that Paul was a witness to the resurrection is close to dishonesty.

(9) How could the disciples even steal the body in the first place? The body was encased in a tomb with a 24 hour watch by Roman guards trained to kill. The punishment for breaking a Roman grave seal, or attempting to steal a body or overpowering a Roman soldier was death, so how did timid, cowardly disciples muster up the courage to try this? And as stated before, for what motive? That’s a big risk for absolutely no payoff. Some will say “maybe the guard was asleep”. First, dereliction of duty brought death to a Roman soldier, so I doubt they would “fall asleep” and secondly, the stone covering the tomb weighed 2 tons and was rolled into a stone groove which would have been flush against the stone opening of the grave. Think about how loud a 2 ton stone scraping against stone would be as several disciples tried to move it. I don’t think Rip Van Winkle could sleep through that, so, how could the disciples have stolen the body? Answer, they didn’t. Jesus actually rose from the dead.

The guard is a lie. Nobody but Matthew records it and it is nonsense anyway. The tomb was open to anyone -including those who had closed it.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-13-2012 at 10:49 AM.. Reason: quoted post was deleted
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:46 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:


John 17
"17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”


Matthew 28
"17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"




God gave Jesus all authority and power in heaven and on earth.
His Father, His God is the source of all power, even the power that Jesus has. If Jesus is Jehovah God, then He would already have all authority in heaven and on earth and would not need to be given anything. He serves His Father, His God. God bless and peace.

Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man [r]attested to you by God with [s]miracles and wonders and [t]signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of [u]godless men and put Him to death. 24 [v]But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the [w]agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held [x]in its power.
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