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Old 03-19-2012, 01:49 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,474 times
Reputation: 31

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Ac 17:
10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

This is saying the Bereans searched the Scriptures [OT] to see if what Paul taught was true or not.

ETA:The RCC is doing what the Scribes/Pharisees did. THEY ADD TO THE SCRIPTURES men's teachings/traditions which made void the Word of God.
I reply: mshipmate you are WRONG!!

Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!"

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

mshipmate Do you believe the scriptures? Do you understand the meaning of the word "AND" As in; ALSO or PLUS!!!?
The Bereans did NOT believe in "Scriptures ALONE!" the Bereans were MORE Noble because; They accepted the TEACHING Of (CHURCH) Paul!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING>>Christ Resurrected!! The Bereans and the Thessalonian only had "OLD TESTAMENT" and "Christ Resurrected" is NOT found in the Old Testament!

mshipmate The Bereans and the Thessalonian's NEEDED a TEACHER to arrive at the TRUTH!!

mshipmate The People Thessalonica believed in; "Scriptures ALONE"!! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!! They are "LESS NOBLE"! BUT...
But they will have an EXCUSE; When they stand in front of Jesus at Judgement!
mshipmate The Thessalonian's DO NOT have written in their Old Testament>>"LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"! They did NOT KNOW they were to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE noble, they LISTENED without being told to LISTEN, the Bereans do NOT Have written in their Old Testament; "LISTEN TO THE CHURCH" as you in the New Testament!!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE NOBLE Because they did NOT Believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

mshipmate The FACT IS: You have NO EXCUSE.. Your New Testament has written; "Listen to the Church"!
When you stand in front of Jesus at the Last judgement.. You can't say; "I did not know I was to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!"
FACT IS: The Protestant is just plain old NOT NOBLE!! Worse off then the people of Thessalonica!!!!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING; "Christ Reserrected" NOT..
Not in a million years would the Bereans arrive at the truth without CHURCH TEACHING TRUTH! PROOF..???
Proof is: "The Jews Today" they only have "Old Testament" two thousand years and they still do NOT believe in; "Christ Resurrected!!" They also NEED a TEACHER to arrive at TRUTH!
Acts 17:2
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Catholic's reject the man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" simply because it is NOT scriptural!

Catholic's believe the scriptures!
mshipmate The idea of "Scriptures are all man need" > Man does not need Church; First appeared SIXTEEN HUNDRED YEARS AFTER JESUS!

HISTORICAL FACT: For the first SEVENTEEN Hundred years>>>There was NO bibles (very few) it was the Holy Catholic CHurch that brought Jesus and salvation to the world! MOST..
mshipmate Most people could not even read!

Scriptures ALONE>> Each man can interpret the scriptures by themselves, is the Cause of the protestant CHAOS, truly the handy work of Satan!

Dogknox

 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
 
4 posts, read 1,943 times
Reputation: 11
Dogknox said:
I must laugh... The word ROMAN was added to the Catholic Church "BY PROTESTANTS"!!!
katiemygirl Until the eighteenth Century the Catholic Church was ALWAYS called "The Catholic Church!"
katiemygirl It was protestants that added the word "ROMAN" to the Catholic Church they were trying to IMPLY that there was OTHER Catholic Churches other then "ROMAN"
They were trying to make it seem; "The Catholic Church" was just another One OF MANY!! Ha-ha!!
katiemygirl The name stuck!!!


This is simply not true. When the early church fathers brought the Word to different regions, certain customs and traditions were incorporated into their religion. Thus the rituals would have the desired spiritual meaning to that particular culture. In this way the Church could (as Jesus stated in Corinthians 9:22) “…become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.”

The Catholics use the term “Rites” to differentiate between the over 20 different “localized” methods of celebration of the sacraments, and such practices. The most common being the Latin rite, or Roman Catholic. Very early on there were at least 3 different Rites. The Roman, the Antiochian (Syria), and the Alexandrian (Egypt). To point the finger at Protestants is deceitful.

This thread is supposed to be about Scripture alone. I guess the general discussion of what led to the need for such a phrase is only natural.


Let’s look at scripture:MATTHEW 6: (Bold added by me)

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 9After this manner (This indicates an EXAMPLE) therefore pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (Show proper reverence and respect for God)
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Pray that His kingdom will come and that His will is done.)
11Give us this day our daily bread. (ask Him for your sustenance
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (ask for His forgiveness as we are all sinners, and should set the example by not holding grudges)
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

So it would seem that memorizing the EXAMPLE word for word and repeating it 100 times (vain repetition) would be exactly what Christ said NOT to do.


Scripture is pretty clear here, so when a priest contradicts this, I side with the Word.

Matthew 27:
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent

Which veil are they speaking of?

Let’s look at Scripture alone
Exodus 26. (Where God instructs Moses how to build the sanctuary). (bold added

And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of ****tim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver. 33And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

Now let’s go to Hebrew 9: (bold added)6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

So now that Christ is our mediator we have no need for a priest to enter into the most holy place to atone our sins for us. Indeed, WE now have the ability to go DIRECTLY to Christ, himself.

Praying to Mary and the multitudes of Saints? Let’s again look to the scriptures alone.

Psalm 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.Psalm 55:16-17 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice

Psalm 86:6-7 Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications. In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.

Psalm 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

Psalm 145:18-19 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. He will fulfill the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Philippians 4:6-7Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

What does Christ himself have to say?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

What about the “deity” of Mary?

Matthew 12:46-50:
46) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So it would seem that Jesus himself was pretty clear in that Mary was no more special than “whoever does my Father’s will
Not once in scripture alone does it even allude to the idea of praying to anyone other than God.

Last edited by Banned AID; 03-19-2012 at 02:57 PM..
 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:38 PM
 
347 posts, read 423,065 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
So if the Catholic Church has "got it right" and is the one "true" church, why is it they have changed the eating meat requirements, and have changed "their truth" from only those of the Catholic faith will be saved to now everyone is saved? The RCC declares now that all one needs to do is "act justly" to be saved. Quite a change from "their absolute truth" from the "one true church.
Like all "protestants" and "fundamentalists" do on this forum, you are confusing Dogma with Doctrine. Learn the difference between the two and what they are.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:44 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 937,791 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
I reply: mshipmate you are WRONG!!

Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!"

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

mshipmate Do you believe the scriptures? Do you understand the meaning of the word "AND" As in; ALSO or PLUS!!!?
The Bereans did NOT believe in "Scriptures ALONE!" the Bereans were MORE Noble because; They accepted the TEACHING Of (CHURCH) Paul!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING>>Christ Resurrected!! The Bereans and the Thessalonian only had "OLD TESTAMENT" and "Christ Resurrected" is NOT found in the Old Testament!

mshipmate The Bereans and the Thessalonian's NEEDED a TEACHER to arrive at the TRUTH!!

mshipmate The People Thessalonica believed in; "Scriptures ALONE"!! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!! They are "LESS NOBLE"! BUT...
But they will have an EXCUSE; When they stand in front of Jesus at Judgement!
mshipmate The Thessalonian's DO NOT have written in their Old Testament>>"LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"! They did NOT KNOW they were to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE noble, they LISTENED without being told to LISTEN, the Bereans do NOT Have written in their Old Testament; "LISTEN TO THE CHURCH" as you in the New Testament!!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE NOBLE Because they did NOT Believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

mshipmate The FACT IS: You have NO EXCUSE.. Your New Testament has written; "Listen to the Church"!
When you stand in front of Jesus at the Last judgement.. You can't say; "I did not know I was to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!"
FACT IS: The Protestant is just plain old NOT NOBLE!! Worse off then the people of Thessalonica!!!!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING; "Christ Reserrected" NOT..
Not in a million years would the Bereans arrive at the truth without CHURCH TEACHING TRUTH! PROOF..???
Proof is: "The Jews Today" they only have "Old Testament" two thousand years and they still do NOT believe in; "Christ Resurrected!!" They also NEED a TEACHER to arrive at TRUTH!
Acts 17:2
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Catholic's reject the man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" simply because it is NOT scriptural!

Catholic's believe the scriptures!
mshipmate The idea of "Scriptures are all man need" > Man does not need Church; First appeared SIXTEEN HUNDRED YEARS AFTER JESUS!

HISTORICAL FACT: For the first SEVENTEEN Hundred years>>>There was NO bibles (very few) it was the Holy Catholic CHurch that brought Jesus and salvation to the world! MOST..
mshipmate Most people could not even read!

Scriptures ALONE>> Each man can interpret the scriptures by themselves, is the Cause of the protestant CHAOS, truly the handy work of Satan!

Dogknox
Quote:
mshipmate Do you believe the scriptures? Do you understand the meaning of the word "AND" As in; ALSO or PLUS!!!?
The Bereans did NOT believe in "Scriptures ALONE!" the Bereans were MORE Noble because; They accepted the TEACHING Of (CHURCH) Paul!
You've got to be kidding saying they accepted the teachings of the CHURCH. Which church? Or more importantly WHICH "CHURCH'S"" TEACHINGS? Most certainly not the RCC's teachings. Messiah, PAUL, Peter and such taught from THE OLD TESTAMENT; not "CHURCH" teachings.


You can go on and on with your silly arguments, but there was NO RRC teachings back then. Just the Law [first 5 books of the OT] and the Prophets [Psalms and the Prophets].

BTW, if there were RRC teachings....who wrote them since the RCC didn't even exsist when Messiah and Paul were teaching!!!? Both Messiah and Paul were JEWISH!!!

Last edited by mshipmate; 03-19-2012 at 03:04 PM..
 
Old 03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,474 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned AID View Post
Dogknox saidI must laugh... The word ROMAN was added to the Catholic Church "BY PROTESTANTS"!!!
katiemygirl Until the eighteenth Century the Catholic Church was ALWAYS called "The Catholic Church!"
katiemygirl It was protestants that added the word "ROMAN" to the Catholic Church they were trying to IMPLY that there was OTHER Catholic Churches other then "ROMAN"!

They were trying to make it seem; "The Catholic Church" was just another One OF MANY!! Ha-ha!!
katiemygirl The name stuck!!![/
This is simply not true. When the early church fathers brought the Word to different regions, certain customs and traditions were incorporated into their religion. Thus the rituals would have the desired spiritual meaning to that particular culture. In this way the Church could (as Jesus stated in Corinthians 9:22) “…become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.”

The Catholics use the term “Rites” to differentiate between the over 20 different “localized” methods of celebration of the sacraments, and such practices. The most common being the Latin rite, or Roman Catholic. Very early on there were at least 3 different Rites. The Roman, the Antiochian (Syria), and the Alexandrian (Egypt). To point the finger at Protestants is deceitful
This thread is supposed to be about Scripture alone. I guess the general discussion of what led to the need for such a phrase is only natural.


Let’s look at scripture:MATTHEW 6: (Bold added by me)
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 9After this manner (This indicates an EXAMPLE) therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (Show proper reverence and respect for God)
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Pray that His kingdom will come and that His will is done.) 11Give us this day our daily bread. (ask Him for your sustenance 12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (ask for His forgiveness as we are all sinners, and should set the example by not holding grudges)
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

So it would seem that memorizing the EXAMPLE word for word and repeating it 100 times (vain repetition) would be exactly what Christ said NOT to do.

Scripture is pretty clear here, so when a priest contradicts this, I side with the Word.

Matthew 27:[/SIZE][/font]
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent

Which veil are they speaking of?

Let’s look at Scripture alone
Exodus 26. (Where God instructs Moses how to build the sanctuary). (bold added

And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of ****tim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver. 33And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

Now let’s go to Hebrew 9: (bold added)6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

So now that Christ is our mediator we have no need for a priest to enter into the most holy place to atone our sins for us. Indeed, WE now have the ability to go DIRECTLY to Christ, himself.

Praying to Mary and the multitudes of Saints? Let’s again look to the scriptures alone.

Psalm 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.Psalm 55:16-17 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice

Psalm 86:6-7 Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications. In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.

Psalm 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

Psalm 145:18-19 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. He will fulfill the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Philippians 4:6-7Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

What does Christ himself have to say?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

What about the “deity” of Mary?

Matthew 12:46-50:
46) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So it would seem that Jesus himself was pretty clear in that Mary was no more special than “whoever does my Father’s will
Not once in scripture alone does it even allude to the idea of praying to anyone other than God.
Banned AID Good to meet you..
I reply this thread is about "Scriptures ALONE!!!"
So I give you scriptures!!!
Catholic's believe the scriptures!!!

Banned AID Scriptures tell Catholic's "To pray and NOT give up">> CONTINUALLY!
Catholic's believe the scriptures we do NOT Babble when we pray!!!!
Luke 18:1
Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.
2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought.
3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think,
5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”
6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.
7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?
8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

Did you see it.. The Orange!!!??
Catholic's pray, and pray and.. pray and not give up.
You point out..
Quote:
The Catholics use the term “Rites”
I reply: ALL RITES accept the AUTHORITY of the Pope!!!
Catholic's accept the Authority of the Pope that is what makes them CATHOLIC!!
Protestants are IN PROTEST against Jesus and his holy Catholic Church!

Banned AID You quote the "Lords Prayer"!!
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

PROVING no man is saved by; "Faith ALONE"!
FORGIVING is an ACTION!!!!
Jesus was teaching the Apostles the "Lords Prayer" telling them EVEN the Apostles will not enter heaven if, all they have is faith> ALONE!!!!
The Apostles MUST FORGIVE to enter heaven! The Apostles were NOT protestants!

Catholic's believe the scriptures!
Banned AID [b]You quote Hebrew 9 ...the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ,..
. to say this.
Quote:
So now that Christ is our mediator we have no need for a priest to enter into the most holy place to atone our sins for us. Indeed, WE now have the ability to go DIRECTLY to Christ, himself.
The SCRIPTURES tell you the early Church had BISHOPS... Bishops are PRIESTS!!
You are funny... YES we (Catholic's) are saved by; "The Blood Of Jesus"!
The Early Church DRANK IT!!!!!!

You do not DRINK IT so you die!

1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Banned AID verse # 27 (above) You CAN'T sin against a SYMBOL!!!!!
Banned AID verse # 28 (above) some bibles say "DRINK CONDEMNATION"!
Banned AID You can't be CONDEMNED by drinking a SYMBOL!!

The Early CHURCH "DRANK" the Blood!!!
Catholic's to this day still DRINK the BLOOD!

Banned AID With ALL RESPECT THINK!!
The Orthodox broke from the Catholic is 1054 A.D. until 1054 there was just ONE CHURCH>> The Holy Catholic Church! NOW..
Now after 1054 today BOTH..
Both the Catholic and the Orthodox believe the "Flesh of Jesus is in the form of bread"! And today BOTH the orthodox and the Catholic believe the BLOOD of Jesus is in the Form Of WINE! PROVING..
Proving beyond all doubt.. The Church Jesus formed the Church of the early Church Father's was CATHOLIC!!

Banned AID There was NO protestants or protestant churches for sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus! The CHURCH of scriptures is NOT it CANNOT be any man made protestant church!

The Corinthians were Catholic's they ate the Flesh of Jesus in the form of bread!

Judas was NOT Catholic.. he CONDEMNED himself!

At the Lords Supper.. RIGHT AFTER Jesus said.. "this is my Body" we read this..
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

All who reject the words of Jesus CONDEMN themselves!
All who reject the words of Jesus REJECT Jesus!
All who reject Jesus are Satan' children!
Satan claimed what rightly belonged to him>> Judas the Man who rejected the words of Jesus!

Catholic's believe the scriptures.. The Corinthians were Catholic's they were NOT protestants they ate the flesh of Jesus they are SAVED by drinking his BLOOD!

Dogknox
 
Old 03-19-2012, 04:01 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,474 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
You've got to be kidding saying they accepted the teachings of the CHURCH. Which church? Or more importantly WHICH "CHURCH'S"" TEACHINGS? Most certainly not the RCC's teachings. Messiah, PAUL, Peter and such taught from THE OLD TESTAMENT; not "CHURCH" teachings.


You can go on and on with your silly arguments, but there was NO RRC teachings back then. Just the Law [first 5 books of the OT] and the Prophets [Psalms and the Prophets].

BTW, if there were RRC teachings....who wrote them since the RCC didn't even exsist when Messiah and Paul were teaching!!!? Both Messiah and Paul were JEWISH!!!
Hello again..mshipmate Good question!!
Quote:
Which church? Or more importantly WHICH "CHURCH'S"" TEACHINGS?
Without any doubt the CHURCH was not protestant!! So you can cross Protestant off your list!!! There was NO protestants of protestant churches for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus! Jesus did not form even ONE protestant church NO NOT ONE!

Paul was Catholic the Apostles were Catholic's!!
CHURCH was TEACHING the Jews Christ Resurrected!!! The Catholic Church to this day is still teaching Christ Resurrected!
Paul was TEACHING >>"NEW Testament"!!
There was NO bible for four hundred more years.. Paul did not read to them he TAUGHT Them Orally!

"Pope Clement I" Note the early date!!
The early Church taught "Christ resurrected!"
Clement said..
"Let us consider, beloved, how the Master is continually proving to us that there will be a future resurrection, of which he has made the Lord Jesus Christ the firstling, by raising him from the dead. Let us look, beloved, at the resurrection which is taking place seasonally. Day and night make known the resurrection to us. The night sleeps, the day arises. Consider the plants that grow. How and in what manner does the sowing take place? The sower went forth and cast each of the seeds onto the ground; and they fall to the ground, parched and bare, where they decay. Then from their decay the greatness of the master’s providence raises them up, and from the one grain more grow and bring forth fruit" (Letter to the Corinthians 24:1–6 [A.D. 80]).

List of popes.. Unbroken chain of popes from Peter to today..
1. St. Peter*(32-67)
2. St. Linus*(67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus)*(76-88)
4. St. Clement I*(88-97)
5. St. Evaristus*(97-105
6. St. Alexander I*(105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I*(115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus*(125-136)
9. St. Hyginus*(136-140)
10. St. Pius I*(140-155)
etc
etc
etc
etc

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING "NEW Testament" Christ resurrected is NEW Testament!

Acts 17:1
When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 04:44 PM
 
12,911 posts, read 6,982,428 times
Reputation: 2396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
Mike555 you refuse to answer because you will have to admit there was NO other CHURCH!
There was NO protestants or protestant churches for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus!
The scriptures are addressed to CHRISTIANS..
They are addressed to CATHOLICS!
The Pope closed the Canon (list of books) 400 years AFTER Jesus! Until it was closed, no one knew what manuscripts were truly inspired and what manuscripts were Phony, False, Twisted, lies!!!
Mike555 you must trust the Holy Catholic church got it right or toss your bible!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

QUESTION: WHAT CHURCH.. if not Catholic??! Name it, name the CHURCH!! In Matthew 18:17 (above) .. Don't just say.. "Believers"!

QUESTION: Did Jesus lie??! Did Jesus LEAVE after he said; He is ALWAYS with his Church!?
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Mike555 Martin Luther said: "Satan is the head of the Catholic Church"! Luther also rejected "I am with you ALWAYS"!
Luther believed Satan somehow OVERPOWERED God, that Satan TOOK Jesus bride from Jesus!
Fact is "The so called reformers REJECTED the scriptures!"
Martin Luther REJECTED the scriptures!

Mike555 You have trusted the salvation of your soul in the lies of men you must abandon the scriptures to believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

Jesus never made protestants or protestant churches all are made by MEN!!
Jesus made ONE CHURCH!!
His ONE CHURCH is Apostolic... Only the Holy Catholic Church can trace her roots back to Peter and the apostles!
Jesus' ONE, Apostolic Church is HOLY >> Blameless!

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Mike555 QUESTION: Is the Holy Catholic Church to be BLAMED??!!

Your founding fathers rejected Ephesians 5:25-27 also!!

Dogknox.. P.S. I made the QUESTIONS in Dark Red so you would see them!!

ANSWER the Questions and I will answer yours!
Dognox, I did answer the question, and the Pope did not close the New Testament Canon. I have already shown you that as well.

The Roman Catholic Church is not the Catholic or Universal Church which is simply the body of Christ made up of all who believe in Jesus Christ during the present dispensation. Believers in Jesus Christ ARE the church! The Church is a new creation. A new spiritual species. 2 Cor 5:17 'Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. This is accomplished by the baptism of the Holy Spirit by which means every church-age believer is placed into union with Jesus Christ (1 Cor 12:12-31; Gal 3:26-28).

The Roman Catholic Church on the other hand is simply an institution which gradually came into existence. It borrowed many pagan beliefs and incorporated them into its belief structure.



Actually, I have entrusted my eternal salvation to Jesus Christ.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 05:23 PM
 
12,911 posts, read 6,982,428 times
Reputation: 2396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
I reply: mshipmate you are WRONG!!

Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!"

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

mshipmate Do you believe the scriptures? Do you understand the meaning of the word "AND" As in; ALSO or PLUS!!!?
The Bereans did NOT believe in "Scriptures ALONE!" the Bereans were MORE Noble because; They accepted the TEACHING Of (CHURCH) Paul!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING>>Christ Resurrected!! The Bereans and the Thessalonian only had "OLD TESTAMENT" and "Christ Resurrected" is NOT found in the Old Testament!

mshipmate The Bereans and the Thessalonian's NEEDED a TEACHER to arrive at the TRUTH!!

mshipmate The People Thessalonica believed in; "Scriptures ALONE"!! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!! They are "LESS NOBLE"! BUT...
But they will have an EXCUSE; When they stand in front of Jesus at Judgement!
mshipmate The Thessalonian's DO NOT have written in their Old Testament>>"LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"! They did NOT KNOW they were to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE noble, they LISTENED without being told to LISTEN, the Bereans do NOT Have written in their Old Testament; "LISTEN TO THE CHURCH" as you in the New Testament!!

mshipmate The Bereans were MORE NOBLE Because they did NOT Believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

mshipmate The FACT IS: You have NO EXCUSE.. Your New Testament has written; "Listen to the Church"!
When you stand in front of Jesus at the Last judgement.. You can't say; "I did not know I was to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!"
FACT IS: The Protestant is just plain old NOT NOBLE!! Worse off then the people of Thessalonica!!!!

mshipmate Paul was TEACHING; "Christ Reserrected" NOT..
Not in a million years would the Bereans arrive at the truth without CHURCH TEACHING TRUTH! PROOF..???
Proof is: "The Jews Today" they only have "Old Testament" two thousand years and they still do NOT believe in; "Christ Resurrected!!" They also NEED a TEACHER to arrive at TRUTH!
Acts 17:2
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Catholic's reject the man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" simply because it is NOT scriptural!

Catholic's believe the scriptures!
mshipmate The idea of "Scriptures are all man need" > Man does not need Church; First appeared SIXTEEN HUNDRED YEARS AFTER JESUS!

HISTORICAL FACT: For the first SEVENTEEN Hundred years>>>There was NO bibles (very few) it was the Holy Catholic CHurch that brought Jesus and salvation to the world! MOST..
mshipmate Most people could not even read!

Scriptures ALONE>> Each man can interpret the scriptures by themselves, is the Cause of the protestant CHAOS, truly the handy work of Satan!

Dogknox

You said this. 'Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!" '


But the Bible says this. Acts 17:11 'Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The Bereans checked the Old Testament Scriptures to see if what Paul and Silas said was true. They wanted to confirm that what Paul and Silas told them was in accordance with the Jewish Scriptures.

Jesus said this. Mark 7:13 'thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

The 'Corban' vow was one of many ways in which the Pharisees set human tradition over the word of God, distorting and obscuring the Old Testament.


And once again, the Roman Catholic Church did not give the world the Bible, or Jesus Christ, or salvation.

The Roman Catholic Church in fact attempted to keep the Bible from being translated into English. The Roman Catholic Church burned William Tyndale at the stake in 1536 because he did in fact translate the Bible into English. The Tyndale Bible was denounced and suppressed by the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 06:26 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,079,461 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
katiemygirl I hope all is well..Your words.. ..
I must laugh... The word "ROMAN" was added to the Catholic Church "BY PROTESTANTS"!!!

katiemygirl Until the eighteenth Century the Catholic Church was ALWAYS called "The Catholic Church!"
katiemygirl It was protestants that added the word "ROMAN" to the Catholic Church they were trying to IMPLY that there was OTHER Catholic Churches other then "ROMAN"!
They were trying to make it seem; "The Catholic Church" was just another One OF MANY!! Ha-ha!!
katiemygirl The name stuck!!!

The Catholic Church mentioned by the Early Church CHRISTIANS was the One and ONLY Holy Catholic Church headed by Pope and Bishops!

katiemygirl Your words..
The words of "EARLY CHRISTIANS!" WERE ALL CATHOLICS!

katiemygirl The EARLY CHURCH FATHERS were all Catholic's, all accepted the authority of Pope! NONE.. No not even one was "Church Of Christ"!


Justin Martyr IS NOT PROTESTANT!!
katiemygirl ..Justin Martyr Ate the flesh of Jesus in the form of bread!
He Baptized to remove sins!!
He said..
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus is CHRISTIAN> he is Catholic he is NOT "Church of Christ"!
Irenaeus Ate the FLESH of Jesus in the form of bread, he drank Jesus' holy blood!
katiemygirl..He said..
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

Council of Nicaea I is a CATHOLIC Council!!
"There was NO Church of Christ"
katiemygirl...The Council tells you.. EUCHARIST is the Flesh of Jesus!
"It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters [i.e., priests], whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]" (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).

Augustine is CATHOLIC.. he is BISHOP!! he is a Early Church Father>> He is CHRISTIAN!!
He tells you> "Jesus carried his own body in his hands at the Last supper!"
He said.
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

katiemygirl There was NO so called "Church of Christ"!
CHRISTIANS ate the flesh of Jesus, in the form of bread!

Christians baptized Babies!
"Christians BAPTIZED INFANTS!!!!"
Irenaeus is CATHOLIC!!
Irenaeus is CHRISTIAN!!
He baptized Infants!
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus is NOT "Church Of Christ" there was NO "Church of Christ"!!
Hippolytus is CATHOLIC>> He Baptized INFANTS!!
He said..
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen is CHRISTIAN!!
>>>>>>>CHRISTIANS "Baptize INFANTS!"<<<<<<<<<
He said..
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).

The ONLY CHURCH for the first Sixteen Hundred years was the CATHOLIC CHURCH headed by Pope and Bishops!
The Martyrdom of Polycarp
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word that came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled (Martyrdom of Polycarp 16:2 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian WAS CATHOLIC!!
katiemygirl Tertullian Tells you blessed Eleutherius was The POPE!!!
Where was [the heretic] Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago—in the reign of Antonius for the most part—and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (Demurrer against the Heretics 30 [A.D. 200]).

POPES of the Catholic Church!
UNBROKEN Chain of Popes from Peter up to today, Pope Benedict>> 265 popes!!!!
1. St. Peter*(32-67)
2. St. Linus*(67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus)*(76-88)
4. St. Clement I*(88-97)
5. St. Evaristus*(97-105
6. St. Alexander I*(105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I*(115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus*(125-136)
9. St. Hyginus*(136-140)
10. St. Pius I*(140-155)
11. St. Anicetus*(155-166)
12. St. Soter*(166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius*(175-189)
14. St. Victor I*(189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus*(199-217)
16. St. Callistus I*(217-22)
17. St. Urban I*(222-30)
etc
etc

Jesus made Peter his Shepherd...
Peter is Shepherd of God' ONLY, Holy CHURCH>> The Holy Catholic CHURCH!
The church in the New Testament was never given the title "Catholic." This title was not God breathed.

The titles church of God, church of Christ, bride of Christ, body of Christ are God breathed titles.

Catholic is a man made title and quite possibly one of the first departures from the true faith.

Another departure was to go from a plurality of elders to one elder over the local church. This is not the way the apostles organized the church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This was apostasy.

Peter and John were both elders/bishops/shepherds/presbyters.

The qualifications for elders were they must be married with one wife. Peter was married.
RCO priests are not married.

The RCO does not teach that the elders were to teach the doctrine of Christ and the apostles. They were not to teach a new gospel.

Dogknox, I have already seen your list of popes. No need to keep reposting.

The Bible is our sole authority. The scriptures are all we need to be complete. The role of the true church was to uphold the apostle's doctrine, not depart from it.

Katie
 
Old 03-19-2012, 06:43 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,474 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You said this. 'Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!" '


But the Bible says this. Acts 17:11 'Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The Bereans checked the Old Testament Scriptures to see if what Paul and Silas said was true. They wanted to confirm that what Paul and Silas told them was in accordance with the Jewish Scriptures.

Jesus said this. Mark 7:13 'thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

The 'Corban' vow was one of many ways in which the Pharisees set human tradition over the word of God, distorting and obscuring the Old Testament.


And once again, the Roman Catholic Church did not give the world the Bible, or Jesus Christ, or salvation.

The Roman Catholic Church in fact attempted to keep the Bible from being translated into English. The Roman Catholic Church burned William Tyndale at the stake in 1536 because he did in fact translate the Bible into English. The Tyndale Bible was denounced and suppressed by the Roman Catholic Church.
Mike555 hello I hope you are well, all is just fine here!
Yes you are right..
Quote:
The Bereans checked the Old Testament Scriptures to see if what Paul and Silas said was true. They wanted to confirm that what Paul and Silas told them was in accordance with the Jewish Scriptures.
Paul was TEACHING "New Testament" Paul was CHRISTIAN!!
Christians believe "Jesus rose!!"
Paul was teaching this..
This comes before your verse 11..(above)
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Mike555 Paul (CHURCH) was TEACHING, Paul PROVED the resurrection!
Not in a million years would the Bereans arrive at the TRUTH "Christ resurrected" without the TEACHING of the CHURCH!

Mike555 Sure they checked their "Old Testament" they could check it until the cows come home but they NEEDED, they had to have a TEACHER to find TRUTH!

The Bereans received the word with great eagerness!!!
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and
examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Catholic's believe the scriptures... The Holy Catholic Church TEACHES...ALL Nations "Christ resurrected", she has always taught "Christ resurrected"!
From Paul up to and including today!

Mike555 It was the "LESS NOBLE" Thessalonians that believed in; "Scriptures ALONE!!"
They Refused to Listen to the Church!

Martin Luther taught (word for word) "All man need is the scriptures, even a small child can interpret the scriptures rightly!"
Martin Luther was wrong, wrong, wrong.. It is his teaching.. "Scriptures are all man needs": is the very reason there are the thousands and thousands of protestant churches, all claiming they interpreted the scriptures correctly.. BUT..
But not one of the thousands of man made churches are teaching the same!

Mike555 One Church.. The Holy Catholic Church TEACHES the same universally>To All Nations<!

The Great Commission
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Mike555 Jesus gave all of God' AUTHORITY to his Holy Church>> THEREFORE GO.. TEACH ALL NATIONS with the AUTHORITY of God!!

Jesus commissioned >HIS CHURCH< to TEACH all nations!
Martin Luther rejected the TEACHING Authority of Jesus' Holy Church.. thus the LIE of "Scriptures ALONE!"

Mike555 QUESTION: "Did Jesus lie"?!
Did Jesus leave his CHURCH!?

Mike555 There were NO protestants or protestant churches Jesus did not make one protestant church, NO Not even one!
All protestant churches, are made by MEN; Men who PROTEST against the ONLY Church Jesus formed! ALL..
All protestants and protestant churches came alone at least sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus said.. "I am ALWAYS with you, to the very end of the age"!

Paul was TEACHING he was COMMISSIONED by "God himself" to TEACH all nations! Starting with the Jews at home he TAUGHT CHRISTIAN TEACHING! "Christ Resurrected!"

Mike555 I made the QUESTION is dark red so you would see it!!!
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