"Scripture ALONE" is not scriptural! (zealous, exodus, rituals)

[DNick]

Originally Posted by lee9786

It's so sad what the RCC has done by superceding Authority of the Scriptures. Catholics are the hardest group to reach, and what make me sad is that I have many I love in my Family. I've tried so hard to open up the Word to them in a number of ways, and they would rather have some "Father" spout nonsense from the pulpit. I find it hard to hide my disdain for the organization. Why not see what the Word says?

I'm not even sure if my soon to be 90 year old Grandmother is saved. All attempts to open up the Scriptures have failed.

Scripture alone is indeed Scriptural, but you have to open up the Scriptures to see that it is. Many I love have been incaptivated by this dangerous Religion. I just pray God is with them. Sure don't see much fruit. Very much "of the world."

If scripture alone is indeed scriptural, please provide the scripture.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by lee9786

It's so sad what the RCC has done by superceding Authority of the Scriptures. Catholics are the hardest group to reach, and what make me sad is that I have many I love in my Family. I've tried so hard to open up the Word to them in a number of ways, and they would rather have some "Father" spout nonsense from the pulpit. I find it hard to hide my disdain for the organization. Why not see what the Word says?

I'm not even sure if my soon to be 90 year old Grandmother is saved. All attempts to open up the Scriptures have failed.

Scripture alone is indeed Scriptural, but you have to open up the Scriptures to see that it is. Many I love have been incaptivated by this dangerous Religion. I just pray God is with them. Sure don't see much fruit. Very much "of the world."

Paul concluded ( who did everything humanly possible to gain eternal life via obedience to the law):

know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

What makes the RCC different from other work-righteousness religions is that they still preach

• Christ crucified
• God is Triune
• Jesus is God
• Jesus is their Savior

The problem is the balance. If one is in lock step and barrel by placing their hope in the balance, then it is questionable.
However, it is possible that the Holy Spirit does work in the heart the four points that is preached and will be seen by God in the heart.
For God has no less mercy for the smoldering wick of the weak than for the roaring flame of an apostle.

[Dogknox]

Originally Posted by katiemygirl

No my friend, the restoration movement goes back to 1906, but the Lord's church goes back to the day of Pentecost. I have already told you the church had different names: church of Christ is only one of the Biblical names given to the church Jesus bled and died for. NEVER is Roman Catholic mentioned in connection with the New Testament church.

I agree that Ignatius used the term catholic to describe the early church 110 AD. But let me remind you Ignatius was not inspired. The inspired writers never gave the title catholic to the Christ's church. Instead they called it the body or bride of Christ, church of God or church of Christ.

Every church in the New Testament had a plurality of elders also called bishops, or presbyters. No congregation had only one elder. Every congregation was completely autonomous or independent of the others.

There was never an earthly head of the church in the New Testament. Jesus was and is the only head of the church.

The Lord's church is not a physical institution. It is spiritual. It is made up of those who believe in Jesus Christ, accept His teachings, repent of their sins, and are immersed in water for forgiveness of sins. The Lord adds them to His church. The Roman Catholic organization has nothing to do with it. No earthly institution can add you to Christ's church.

I don't need to prove to you that there was no pope in the early church. The New Testament is all the proof needed. There was no such thing as a pope! This was an invention of the RCO hundreds of years after the apostles died.

Katie

katiemygirl I hope all is well..Your words.. ..

NEVER is Roman Catholic mentioned in connection with the New Testament church.

I must laugh... The word "ROMAN" was added to the Catholic Church "BY PROTESTANTS"!!!

katiemygirl Until the eighteenth Century the Catholic Church was ALWAYS called "The Catholic Church!"
katiemygirl It was protestants that added the word "ROMAN" to the Catholic Church they were trying to IMPLY that there was OTHER Catholic Churches other then "ROMAN"!
They were trying to make it seem; "The Catholic Church" was just another One OF MANY!! Ha-ha!!
katiemygirl The name stuck!!!

The Catholic Church mentioned by the Early Church CHRISTIANS was the One and ONLY Holy Catholic Church headed by Pope and Bishops!

katiemygirl Your words..

I agree that Ignatius used the term catholic to describe the early church 110 AD. But let me remind you Ignatius was not inspired. The inspired writers never gave the title catholic to the Christ's church. Instead they called it the body or bride of Christ, church of God or church of Christ.

The words of "EARLY CHRISTIANS!" WERE ALL CATHOLICS!

katiemygirl The EARLY CHURCH FATHERS were all Catholic's, all accepted the authority of Pope! NONE.. No not even one was "Church Of Christ"!


Justin Martyr IS NOT PROTESTANT!!
katiemygirl ..Justin Martyr Ate the flesh of Jesus in the form of bread!
He Baptized to remove sins!!
He said..
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus is CHRISTIAN> he is Catholic he is NOT "Church of Christ"!
Irenaeus Ate the FLESH of Jesus in the form of bread, he drank Jesus' holy blood!
katiemygirl..He said..
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

Council of Nicaea I is a CATHOLIC Council!!
"There was NO Church of Christ"
katiemygirl...The Council tells you.. EUCHARIST is the Flesh of Jesus!
"It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters [i.e., priests], whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]" (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).

Augustine is CATHOLIC.. he is BISHOP!! he is a Early Church Father>> He is CHRISTIAN!!
He tells you> "Jesus carried his own body in his hands at the Last supper!"
He said.
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

katiemygirl There was NO so called "Church of Christ"!
CHRISTIANS ate the flesh of Jesus, in the form of bread!

Christians baptized Babies!
"Christians BAPTIZED INFANTS!!!!"
Irenaeus is CATHOLIC!!
Irenaeus is CHRISTIAN!!
He baptized Infants!
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus is NOT "Church Of Christ" there was NO "Church of Christ"!!
Hippolytus is CATHOLIC>> He Baptized INFANTS!!
He said..
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen is CHRISTIAN!!

>>>>>>>CHRISTIANS "Baptize INFANTS!"<<<<<<<<<

He said..
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).

The ONLY CHURCH for the first Sixteen Hundred years was the CATHOLIC CHURCH headed by Pope and Bishops!
The Martyrdom of Polycarp
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word that came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled (Martyrdom of Polycarp 16:2 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian WAS CATHOLIC!!
katiemygirl Tertullian Tells you blessed Eleutherius was The POPE!!!
Where was [the heretic] Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago—in the reign of Antonius for the most part—and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (Demurrer against the Heretics 30 [A.D. 200]).

POPES of the Catholic Church!
UNBROKEN Chain of Popes from Peter up to today, Pope Benedict>> 265 popes!!!!
1. St. Peter*(32-67)
2. St. Linus*(67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus)*(76-88)
4. St. Clement I*(88-97)
5. St. Evaristus*(97-105
6. St. Alexander I*(105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I*(115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus*(125-136)
9. St. Hyginus*(136-140)
10. St. Pius I*(140-155)
11. St. Anicetus*(155-166)
12. St. Soter*(166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius*(175-189)
14. St. Victor I*(189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus*(199-217)
16. St. Callistus I*(217-22)
17. St. Urban I*(222-30)
etc
etc

Jesus made Peter his Shepherd...
Peter is Shepherd of God' ONLY, Holy CHURCH>> The Holy Catholic CHURCH!

[godservant]

waht are we really arguing or debating over? what happened thousands of years ago? our egos are playing with eachother.. its what they do

are we looking for peace? we will never find it by playing with the mind and ego.. when we silence the ego and forget about who is right and wrong.. we will find that space where peace and love and all things are. right here.. right now.. its you.

[Dogknox]

Originally Posted by lee9786

It's so sad what the RCC has done by superceding Authority of the Scriptures. Catholics are the hardest group to reach, and what make me sad is that I have many I love in my Family. I've tried so hard to open up the Word to them in a number of ways, and they would rather have some "Father" spout nonsense from the pulpit. I find it hard to hide my disdain for the organization. Why not see what the Word says?

I'm not even sure if my soon to be 90 year old Grandmother is saved. All attempts to open up the Scriptures have failed.

Scripture alone is indeed Scriptural, but you have to open up the Scriptures to see that it is. Many I love have been incaptivated by this dangerous Religion. I just pray God is with them. Sure don't see much fruit. Very much "of the world."

lee9786 I hope all is well with you...
Your words..

Scripture alone is indeed Scriptural, but you have to open up the Scriptures to see that it is.

I reply: Scriptures come outright and say; "all who believe in.. Scriptures ALONE are NOT NOBLE!"

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

lee9786 Do you believe the scriptures? Do you understand the meaning of the word "AND" As in; ALSO or PLUS!!!?
The Bereans did NOT believe in "Scriptures ALONE!" the Bereans were MORE Noble because; They accepted the TEACHING Of (CHURCH) Paul!

lee9786 Paul was TEACHING>>Christ Resurrected!! The Bereans and the Thessalonian only had "OLD TESTAMENT" and "Christ Resurrected" is NOT found in the Old Testament!

lee9786 The Bereans and the Thessalonian's NEEDED a TEACHER to arrive at the TRUTH!!

lee9786 The People Thessalonica believed in "Scriptures ALONE"!! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!! They are "LESS NOBLE"! BUT...
But they will have an EXCUSE; When they stand in front of Jesus at Judgement!
lee9786 The Thessalonian's DO NOT have written in their Old Testament>>"LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"! They did NOT KNOW they were to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!

lee9786 The Bereans were MORE noble, they LISTENED without being told to LISTEN, the Bereans do NOT Have written in their Old Testament; "LISTEN TO THE CHURCH" as you in the New Testament!!

lee9786 The Bereans were MORE NOBLE Because they did NOT Believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

lee9786 The FACT IS: You have NO EXCUSE.. Your New Testament has written; "Listen to the Church"!
When you stand in front of Jesus at the Last judgement.. You can't say; "I did not know I was to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH!"
FACT IS: The Protestant is just plain old NOT NOBLE!! Worse off then the people of Thessalonica!!!!

lee9786 Paul was TEACHING; "Christ Reserrected" NOT..
Not in a million years would the Bereans arrive at the truth without CHURCH TEACHING TRUTH! PROOF..???
Proof is: "The Jews Today" they only have "Old Testament" two thousand years and they still do NOT believe in; "Christ Resurrected!!" They also NEED a TEACHER to arrive at TRUTH!
Acts 17:2
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Catholic's reject The man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" simply because it is NOT scriptural!
Catholic's believe the scriptures!
lee9786 The idea of "Scriptures are all man need" > Man does not need Church; First appeared SIXTEEN HUNDRED YEARS AFTER JESUS!
HISTORICAL FACT: For the first SEVENTEEN Hundred years>>>There was NO bibles (very few) it was the Holy Catholic CHurch that brought Jesus and salvation to the world! MOST..
lee9786 Most people could not even read!

Scriptures ALONE>> Each man can interpret the scriptures by themselves, is the Cause of the protestant CHAOS, truly the handy work of Satan!

Dogknox

[Dogknox]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Actually, lime green is not a good color to use as it is somewhat faded and hard to read.

Mike555 you refuse to answer because you will have to admit there was NO other CHURCH!
There was NO protestants or protestant churches for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus!
The scriptures are addressed to CHRISTIANS..
They are addressed to CATHOLICS!
The Pope closed the Canon (list of books) 400 years AFTER Jesus! Until it was closed, no one knew what manuscripts were truly inspired and what manuscripts were Phony, False, Twisted, lies!!!
Mike555 you must trust the Holy Catholic church got it right or toss your bible!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

QUESTION: WHAT CHURCH.. if not Catholic??! Name it, name the CHURCH!! In Matthew 18:17 (above) .. Don't just say.. "Believers"!

QUESTION: Did Jesus lie??! Did Jesus LEAVE after he said; He is ALWAYS with his Church!?
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Mike555 Martin Luther said: "Satan is the head of the Catholic Church"! Luther also rejected "I am with you ALWAYS"!
Luther believed Satan somehow OVERPOWERED God, that Satan TOOK Jesus bride from Jesus!
Fact is "The so called reformers REJECTED the scriptures!"
Martin Luther REJECTED the scriptures!

Mike555 You have trusted the salvation of your soul in the lies of men you must abandon the scriptures to believe in "Scriptures ALONE!"

Jesus never made protestants or protestant churches all are made by MEN!!
Jesus made ONE CHURCH!!
His ONE CHURCH is Apostolic... Only the Holy Catholic Church can trace her roots back to Peter and the apostles!
Jesus' ONE, Apostolic Church is HOLY >> Blameless!

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Mike555 QUESTION: Is the Holy Catholic Church to be BLAMED??!!

Your founding fathers rejected Ephesians 5:25-27 also!!

Dogknox.. P.S. I made the QUESTIONS in Dark Red so you would see them!!

ANSWER the Questions and I will answer yours!

[saved33]

So if the Catholic Church has "got it right" and is the one "true" church, why is it they have changed the eating meat requirements, and have changed "their truth" from only those of the Catholic faith will be saved to now everyone is saved? The RCC declares now that all one needs to do is "act justly" to be saved. Quite a change from "their absolute truth" from the "one true church.

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by DNick

If scripture alone is indeed scriptural, please provide the scripture.

Ac 17:
10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

This is saying the Bereans searched the Scriptures [OT] to see if what Paul taught was true or not.

ETA:The RCC is doing what the Scribes/Pharisees did. THEY ADD TO THE SCRIPTURES men's teachings/traditions which made void the Word of God.

[DNick]

We're not debating whether or not scripture is true. We agree on that. We debating SOLA scriptura.

Jesus told us to hold fast to traditions written AND oral.

[Dogknox]

Originally Posted by saved33

So if the Catholic Church has "got it right" and is the one "true" church, why is it they have changed the eating meat requirements, and have changed "their truth" from only those of the Catholic faith will be saved to now everyone is saved? The RCC declares now that all one needs to do is "act justly" to be saved. Quite a change from "their absolute truth" from the "one true church.

Hello saved33 I hope you are happy, and well..
GOOD QUESTION!!!!
Catholic's do NOT teach Only Catholic will be saved!! So right off you have it wrong!

Eating meat on Fridays was just a position the church took to help men LOVE GOD!!!
Giving up... Money, time, food, offering prayers... are all good!!!
The idea was there but it was abused... The Holy Catholic Church found not eating meat on Fridays was not being done from the heart.. so they let it drop!!! The Church still tells us.. "No meat Ash Wednesday or Good Friday!"
Offering to God; Such a small sacrifice from the heart for all Jesus did!!!

Mark 2:20
But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.

saved33 Catholic's fast on "Good Friday">> we have always fasted Good Fridays!

You said..

The RCC declares now that all one needs to do is "act justly" to be saved. Quite a change from "their absolute truth" from the "one true church.

saved33 Catholic's believe the scriptures..
James 2:24
American Standard Version (ASV)
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

saved33 Works JUSTIFY!! OR.. said another way (different Bible) To be RIGHTEOUS you must; DO RIGHT!!
James 2:24
New International Version (NIV)
24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Do you see it.. "NOT BY"!!!

Again your words.. You said..

The RCC declares now that all one needs to do is "act justly" to be saved. Quite a change from "their absolute truth" from the "one true church.

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

DO YOU SEE IT?? To be RIGHTEOUS you must "DO RIGHT"!!
The RIGHTEOUS go to heaven.. NOT BY "Faith ALONE!"
The RIGHTEOUS >> DO RIGHT!"
All who "Do RIGHT" are saved not just Catholics!
saved33 You the protestant must reject "DOING RIGHT" fearing it is WORK!!!
Catholic's believe the scriptures thus we reject "saved by faith ALONE, thus we reject saved by "scriptures ALONE"!

I ADD: You were not born with a degree from Princeton in your hand!!
All GROW and develop in understanding, all LEARN as they age!!!!

The Holy Catholic Church is Two Thousand Years Old! She is no different..She grows in understanding!
The Trinity was always accepted by the Early Church Father's but The DOCTRINE of Trinity did not get established; "MADE OFFICIAL" until it was set forth in the APOSTLES' CREED BY the Holy Catholic Church! saved33 This all took TIME!

Same with the "Incarnation" doctrine.. It was made OFFICIAL long after Jesus left the earth!!

The Church grew in understanding, as the Holy Spirit reviled the TRUTH to her! ALL..
All heretics, every heresy that appeared, was fought and won by the Holy Catholic Church>>None Other!
Martin Luther and the "de-Formers" were NOT the first Heretics!

The Holy Catholic Church made the "Canon" (the list of books) OFFICIAL at "the Council of Trent" in 1545-1563 but the Canon was closed by the pope in 400 A.D.!

saved33 The Early Church Father's TAUGHT, "The TRUTH is found ONLY in the Holy Catholic Church"!
The Older Church said.. "The FULLNESS of Truth is found ONLY in the Holy Catholic Church!" When the Early Church Father's made their statement, there was NO other Churches, Just the Holy Catholic Church>> NO OTHERS<<!!

SCriptures are CLEAR... "God is LOVE"!
All with God will enter heaven..

Scriptures.. "The CHURCH is the Body of God!"

saved33 You must twist the scriptures to be protestant!
Catholic believe the scriptures!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

There was NO protestants or Protestant churches when 1 Timothy 3:15 was written.. There was Just One Church.. The Holy Catholic Church!!!
There was No other Churches when the Pope closed the Canon of scripture!
There was No other churches when the, Pope made the, "Trinity OFFICIAL!"
There was NO other churches when the Pope made the "incarnation" Official! ONLY..
Only the Holy Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit!

Dogknox