U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-19-2012, 06:09 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,042,756 times
Reputation: 175

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLA View Post
Be careful, very careful. Here's the complete thought as given by Paul in the Holy Bible:

Romans 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.
Jesus tells us those who do not believe in Him will die in their sins.
Lack of faith is unbelief.

23But he [Jesus] continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be],a you will indeed die in your sins.” (John 8)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-19-2012, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,227,084 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
How do you interpret the following:

Galatians 5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

12I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Sometimes Paul's words are hard to understand, but he always upheld The Ten Commandments. So with that in mind, what does Galatians 5:1-14 truly mean...

Galatians 5:

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty - From the ceremonial law - (*The Book Of The Law* which is NOT *The Book Of The Covenant* otherwise called: *The Ten Commandments*. Please go to my thread entitiled: "The Chronology of the Covenants" and read it.) Wherewith Christ hath made us - And all believers, free; and be not entangled again with the "yoke of legal bondage" - which again, is also called, *The Book Of The Law*, which again, IS NOT *THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT* - otherwise called, *THE TEN COMMANDMENTS*.

*Note to lee: Once you clear this ^^^ up in your mind and heart (the difference between the TWO LAWS), you will better understand the truth of God's word in its entirety.


2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

5:2 If you're circumcised and think that serves to justify you, then Christ will profit you nothing...for you do not acknowledge Christ and forfeit all the blessings which come through faith in Him.



3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

5:3 I testify to every man (gentile) that is circumcised, he himself is in debt to DO the WHOLE law...as is every man (Jew) who is circumcised, is in debt to DO the WHOLE law as well. Paul is stating here that whether or not Jew and/or Gentile is or is not circumcised does not mean anything...it was an act of legalism that had nothing to do with anything. This belief went along with all the other acts of legalism that was commanded in The Book Of The Law which was added to The Book Of The Covenant...only it was placed OUTSIDE of the ark...as a "witness against Israel" or "a yoke of bondage" for their disobedience and unbelief in the wilderness.



4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5:4 Therefore you who seek to be justified by the law of circumcision, Christ is become of no effect to you. You are fallen from grace. You renounce the new covenant. You disclaim the benefit of this gracious dispensation.



5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

5:5 For we - Who believe in Christ, Who are under the gospel dispensation. Through the Spirit, without any of those carnal ordinances (The Book Of The Law, the second covenant of God made with the Israelites in Moab), wait for, in sure confidence of attaining the hope of righteousness. The righteousness we hope for, and full reward of it. This righteousness we receive of God through faith; and by faith we shall obtain the reward.



6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

5:6 For in Christ Jesus, according to the institution which he hath established, according to the tenor of the Christian covenant, neither circumcision, with the most punctual observance of the law, nor uncircumcision, with the most exact heathen morality, availeth anything toward present justification or eternal salvation. But faith alone; even that faith which worketh by love...which THIS "love" IS! All inward and outward holiness.



7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

5:7 You did run well in the race of faith. Who has hindered you in your course, that you should not still obey the truth?



8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

5:8 This your present persuasion cometh not from God, who called you to his kingdom and glory...it is of the devil who has lied to you from the beginning and led you into believing these lies...and now you walk in these lies and teach them to others...forsaking the truth in keeping God's Ten Commandments which NEVER went anywhere !...they are FOREVER to be observed...they were placed INSIDE the ark of the Covenant to be REMEMBERED forever!



9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump - One troubler, ver.10, troubles all. This "troubler" is one who says to you that you must be circumcised to be justified...or in other words, living under the rule of The Book Of The Law and forsaking living under the rule of The Book Of The Covenant, which is The Ten Commandments.



10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

5:10 Paul is stating that he still has confidence that after they have read this, they will not be persuaded to believe different than what Paul is trying to teach them...that they will remain "like-minded" as he is. But he that troubleth them/you by lying to them/you...attempting to seduce them/you, shall bear his judgment.



11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

5:11 But if I still preach circumcision, as that troubler seems to have affirmed, probably taking occasion from his having circumcised Timothy. Why do I still suffer persecution? Then is the offence of the cross ceased - The reason why the Jews were so offended at his preaching Christ crucified, and so bitterly persecuted him for it, was, that it implied the abolition of the law (The Book Of The Law - the "ceremonial law" - The "witness against them" - the "yoke of bondage" given to them at Moab....Not The Book Of The Covenant (The Ten Commandments), given to them at Horeb on top of Mount Sanai. Yet, Paul did not condemn the conforming, out of condescension to the weakness of any one, even to the ceremonial law; but he did absolutely condemn those who taught it as necessary to justification.



12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

5:12 I would they were even cut off - From your communion; cast out of your church, that thus trouble you.



13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

5:13 You have been called to liberty, from sin and misery, as well as from the ceremonial law. Only, do not use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh...take not occasion to gratify corrupt nature, but by love serve one another - And hereby show that Christ has made you free.



14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself - inasmuch as none can do this without loving God, 1John 4:12; and the love of God and man includes all perfection. Lev 19:18.



15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

5:15 But if those "troublers" have caused dividion among you, and you bite one another b y evil speaking...take heed that you be not concumed by one another by bitterness...strife...and contention...for it will consume your health and your strength and ruin your reputation...as well as harm your character.


16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:16 I say then...(Paul now explains what he proposed, Gal 5:13...Walk by the Spirit...follow his guidance in all things, and fulfil not, in anything, the desire of the flesh...of corrupt nature.



17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:17 For the flesh is against the Spirit...the flesh is contrary to the Spirit of God. But the Spirit against the flesh...the Holy Spirit on his part opposes your evil nature. These are contrary to each other. The flesh and the Spirit; there can be no agreement between them. That ye may not do the things which ye would...that being strengthened by the Spirit, you may not fulfil the desire of the flesh, as otherwise ye would do.



18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

5:18 But if>>>IF!<<<!>>>IF!<<< ye are led by the Spirit - Of liberty and love, >>>>into all holiness<<<<...>>>THEN!<<<!>>>THEN!<<< Ye are not under the law...not under the curse or bondage of it; not under the guilt or the power of sin.



19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest. plain and undeniable. Works are mentioned in the plural because they are distinct from, and often inconsistent with, each other. But the fruit of the Spirit is mentioned in the singular, Ga 5:22, as being all consistent and connected together. Which are these - He enumerates those works of the flesh to which the Galatians were most inclined; and those parts of the fruit of the Spirit of which they stood in the greatest need. Lasciviousness - The Greek word means anything inward or outward that is contrary to chastity, and yet short of actual uncleanness.
Commentary by Wesley.



20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft - That this means witchcraft, strictly speaking, (not poisoning,) appears from its being joined with the worship of devil - gods, and not with murder. This is frequently and solemnly forbidden in the Old Testament. To deny therefore that there is, or ever was, any such thing, is, by plain consequence, to deny the authority both of the Old and New Testament. Divisions - In domestic or civil matters. Heresies are divisions in religious communities.
Commentary by Wesley.



21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

5:21 Revellings - Luxurious entertainments. Some of the works here mentioned are wrought principally, if not entirely, in the mind; and yet they are called works of the flesh. Hence it is clear, the apostle does not by the flesh mean the body, or sensual appetites and inclinations only, but the corruption of human nature, as it spreads through all the powers of the soul, as well as all the members of the body. Of which I tell you before - Before the event, I forewarn you.
Commentary by Wesley.



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

5:22 Love - The root of all the rest. Gentleness - Toward all men; ignorant and wicked men in particular. Goodness - The Greek word means all that is benign, soft, winning, tender, either in temper or behaviour.
Commentary by Wesley.


23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5:23 Meekness - Holding all the affections and passions in even balance.
Wesley.


24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

5:24 And they that are Christ's - True believers in him. Have thus crucified the flesh - Nailed it, as it were, to a cross whence it has no power to break loose, but is continually weaker and weaker. With its affections and desires - All its evil passions, appetites, and inclinations.
Wesley.


25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

5:25 If we live by the Spirit - If we are indeed raised from the dead, and are alive to God, by the operation of his Spirit. Let us walk by the Spirit - Let us follow his guidance, in all our tempers, thoughts, words, and actions.
Wesley.


26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
5:26 Be not desirous of vain glory - Of the praise or esteem of men. They who do not carefully and closely follow the Spirit, easily slide into this: the natural effects of which are, provoking to envy them that are beneath us, and envying them that are above us.
Wesley.


...blessings lee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,787,297 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...huh...? Your answer to what my entire post of Scriptural truth means to you is simply that they are commandments that Jesus gave while on this earth...? really...? REALLY...?

mzjamiedawn...until God sees you worthy to unveil His truth of His Gospel to you, I cannot even begin to learn it for you...you have some serious, faithful seeking, soul searching to do in order to have any kind of relationship with God and His truth being revealed to, and lived out by you.

...a good start would be to read and listen and learn truth.
Why am I not surprised you still haven't explained what Galatians means? You are like another on here on the Catholic thread, that only spouts off the same thing over and over like a robot who is programmed, then when someone shows you scripture that contradicts your belief, you throw up a wall, cover your eyes, and yell...you need the truth!

Seriously, Verna. Your whole post boils down to one question. What are the "commandments" that Jesus is speaking of. I answered that question. It's the commands He gave while here on earth.

It doesn't matter if you like my answer or not. Stop stalling. It's your turn to answer about Galatians. Do you not think everyone who reads this can see what you're doing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Verna,

What perfect law are you keeping by condemning all who do not see eye to eye with you? There are several posters on this forum who do the exact same thing. I will refrain from calling them by name.
She is very good at it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:18 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,854,597 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Sometimes Paul's words are hard to understand, but he always upheld The Ten Commandments. So with that in mind, what does Galatians 5:1-14 truly mean...

Galatians 5:

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty - From the ceremonial law - (*The Book Of The Law* which is NOT *The Book Of The Covenant* otherwise called: *The Ten Commandments*. Please go to my thread entitiled: "The Chronology of the Covenants" and read it.) Wherewith Christ hath made us - And all believers, free; and be not entangled again with the "yoke of legal bondage" - which again, is also called, *The Book Of The Law*, which again, IS NOT *THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT* - otherwise called, *THE TEN COMMANDMENTS*.

*Note to lee: Once you clear this ^^^ up in your mind and heart (the difference between the TWO LAWS), you will better understand the truth of God's word in its entirety.


2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

5:2 If you're circumcised and think that serves to justify you, then Christ will profit you nothing...for you do not acknowledge Christ and forfeit all the blessings which come through faith in Him.



3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

5:3 I testify to every man (gentile) that is circumcised, he himself is in debt to DO the WHOLE law...as is every man (Jew) who is circumcised, is in debt to DO the WHOLE law as well. Paul is stating here that whether or not Jew and/or Gentile is or is not circumcised does not mean anything...it was an act of legalism that had nothing to do with anything. This belief went along with all the other acts of legalism that was commanded in The Book Of The Law which was added to The Book Of The Covenant...only it was placed OUTSIDE of the ark...as a "witness against Israel" or "a yoke of bondage" for their disobedience and unbelief in the wilderness.



4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5:4 Therefore you who seek to be justified by the law of circumcision, Christ is become of no effect to you. You are fallen from grace. You renounce the new covenant. You disclaim the benefit of this gracious dispensation.



5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

5:5 For we - Who believe in Christ, Who are under the gospel dispensation. Through the Spirit, without any of those carnal ordinances (The Book Of The Law, the second covenant of God made with the Israelites in Moab), wait for, in sure confidence of attaining the hope of righteousness. The righteousness we hope for, and full reward of it. This righteousness we receive of God through faith; and by faith we shall obtain the reward.



6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

5:6 For in Christ Jesus, according to the institution which he hath established, according to the tenor of the Christian covenant, neither circumcision, with the most punctual observance of the law, nor uncircumcision, with the most exact heathen morality, availeth anything toward present justification or eternal salvation. But faith alone; even that faith which worketh by love...which THIS "love" IS! All inward and outward holiness.



7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

5:7 You did run well in the race of faith. Who has hindered you in your course, that you should not still obey the truth?



8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

5:8 This your present persuasion cometh not from God, who called you to his kingdom and glory...it is of the devil who has lied to you from the beginning and led you into believing these lies...and now you walk in these lies and teach them to others...forsaking the truth in keeping God's Ten Commandments which NEVER went anywhere !...they are FOREVER to be observed...they were placed INSIDE the ark of the Covenant to be REMEMBERED forever!



9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump - One troubler, ver.10, troubles all. This "troubler" is one who says to you that you must be circumcised to be justified...or in other words, living under the rule of The Book Of The Law and forsaking living under the rule of The Book Of The Covenant, which is The Ten Commandments.



10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

5:10 Paul is stating that he still has confidence that after they have read this, they will not be persuaded to believe different than what Paul is trying to teach them...that they will remain "like-minded" as he is. But he that troubleth them/you by lying to them/you...attempting to seduce them/you, shall bear his judgment.



11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

5:11 But if I still preach circumcision, as that troubler seems to have affirmed, probably taking occasion from his having circumcised Timothy. Why do I still suffer persecution? Then is the offence of the cross ceased - The reason why the Jews were so offended at his preaching Christ crucified, and so bitterly persecuted him for it, was, that it implied the abolition of the law (The Book Of The Law - the "ceremonial law" - The "witness against them" - the "yoke of bondage" given to them at Moab....Not The Book Of The Covenant (The Ten Commandments), given to them at Horeb on top of Mount Sanai. Yet, Paul did not condemn the conforming, out of condescension to the weakness of any one, even to the ceremonial law; but he did absolutely condemn those who taught it as necessary to justification.



12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

5:12 I would they were even cut off - From your communion; cast out of your church, that thus trouble you.



13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

5:13 You have been called to liberty, from sin and misery, as well as from the ceremonial law. Only, do not use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh...take not occasion to gratify corrupt nature, but by love serve one another - And hereby show that Christ has made you free.



14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself - inasmuch as none can do this without loving God, 1John 4:12; and the love of God and man includes all perfection. Lev 19:18.



15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

5:15 But if those "troublers" have caused dividion among you, and you bite one another b y evil speaking...take heed that you be not concumed by one another by bitterness...strife...and contention...for it will consume your health and your strength and ruin your reputation...as well as harm your character.


16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:16 I say then...(Paul now explains what he proposed, Gal 5:13...Walk by the Spirit...follow his guidance in all things, and fulfil not, in anything, the desire of the flesh...of corrupt nature.



17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:17 For the flesh is against the Spirit...the flesh is contrary to the Spirit of God. But the Spirit against the flesh...the Holy Spirit on his part opposes your evil nature. These are contrary to each other. The flesh and the Spirit; there can be no agreement between them. That ye may not do the things which ye would...that being strengthened by the Spirit, you may not fulfil the desire of the flesh, as otherwise ye would do.



18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

5:18 But if>>>IF!<<<!>>>IF!<<< ye are led by the Spirit - Of liberty and love, >>>>into all holiness<<<<...>>>THEN!<<<!>>>THEN!<<< Ye are not under the law...not under the curse or bondage of it; not under the guilt or the power of sin.



19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest. plain and undeniable. Works are mentioned in the plural because they are distinct from, and often inconsistent with, each other. But the fruit of the Spirit is mentioned in the singular, Ga 5:22, as being all consistent and connected together. Which are these - He enumerates those works of the flesh to which the Galatians were most inclined; and those parts of the fruit of the Spirit of which they stood in the greatest need. Lasciviousness - The Greek word means anything inward or outward that is contrary to chastity, and yet short of actual uncleanness.
Commentary by Wesley.



20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft - That this means witchcraft, strictly speaking, (not poisoning,) appears from its being joined with the worship of devil - gods, and not with murder. This is frequently and solemnly forbidden in the Old Testament. To deny therefore that there is, or ever was, any such thing, is, by plain consequence, to deny the authority both of the Old and New Testament. Divisions - In domestic or civil matters. Heresies are divisions in religious communities.
Commentary by Wesley.



21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

5:21 Revellings - Luxurious entertainments. Some of the works here mentioned are wrought principally, if not entirely, in the mind; and yet they are called works of the flesh. Hence it is clear, the apostle does not by the flesh mean the body, or sensual appetites and inclinations only, but the corruption of human nature, as it spreads through all the powers of the soul, as well as all the members of the body. Of which I tell you before - Before the event, I forewarn you.
Commentary by Wesley.



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

5:22 Love - The root of all the rest. Gentleness - Toward all men; ignorant and wicked men in particular. Goodness - The Greek word means all that is benign, soft, winning, tender, either in temper or behaviour.
Commentary by Wesley.


23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5:23 Meekness - Holding all the affections and passions in even balance.
Wesley.


24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

5:24 And they that are Christ's - True believers in him. Have thus crucified the flesh - Nailed it, as it were, to a cross whence it has no power to break loose, but is continually weaker and weaker. With its affections and desires - All its evil passions, appetites, and inclinations.
Wesley.


25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

5:25 If we live by the Spirit - If we are indeed raised from the dead, and are alive to God, by the operation of his Spirit. Let us walk by the Spirit - Let us follow his guidance, in all our tempers, thoughts, words, and actions.
Wesley.


26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
5:26 Be not desirous of vain glory - Of the praise or esteem of men. They who do not carefully and closely follow the Spirit, easily slide into this: the natural effects of which are, provoking to envy them that are beneath us, and envying them that are above us.
Wesley.


...blessings lee.
The "Law" specifically referred to throughout the book of Galatians is from Mount Sinai until the Seed - Messiah Lord Jesus.

Galatians 3:16-18


16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


I recommend meditating/chewing on this verse for a little while. We have completely bypassed Moses altogether by 430 years earlier.

YHWH God's unconditional covenant with Abraham - the promise of the Seed Messiah.

Genesis 12
1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 1512And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis 17:6
And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

The promise of the "seed" goes back to Genesis 3.

The Promise was to Abraham 430 years prior to Moses. 430 years earlier than Mount Sinai. Circumsion is not referring to the Ceremonial Law only, but to the entire Law given to Moses.

Than why the Law?

Galatians 3:19

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Paul also makes a point that the Mosaic Law on Mount Sinai was given through a mediator. The LORD's unconditional covenant to Abraham had no mediator.

Those "Keeping the Law" for Justification are considered "Adulterers" (Spiritually) by Paul because those Baptized by the Holy Ghost are considered dead. The Law cannot try a dead person twice.

Romans 7

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


The Abrahamic unconditional Covenant was established 430 years prior to the giving of "the Law" on Mt. Sinai.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:29 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,854,597 times
Reputation: 3724
"The 'if' you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law" is referring to us checking to make sure the Spirit of God is within us - "making our election sure".

2 Peter 1:4-11

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


There are many professing Christians walking around that I do not believe have been born again because of their fruits. Very much of the world loving the things in the world. If they are born again, they have a new heart which will cause response to the Gospel message.

We are ultimately saved by God's Spirit within us - Baptism by the Holy Spirit in which the believer is "sealed". We have been "purchased".

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 14:15-17
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Response to being Baptized with the Holy Spirit is the Obedience to the Faith - Keeping the Commandments of Christ. Love service toward each other walking in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5) producing Fruit abiding in HIS words.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,227,084 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Instead of feeling sorry for me, how about you actually discuss the verses at hand? If these are not saying "faith, not law"...you tell me what it means.

All of Galatians 3 is awesome. Here are some highlights:

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

If the above verses are not saying "faith, not law"...what is it saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...huh...? Your answer to what my entire post of Scriptural truth means to you is simply that they are commandments that Jesus gave while on this earth...? really...? REALLY...?

mzjamiedawn...until God sees you worthy to unveil His truth of His Gospel to you, I cannot even begin to learn it for you...you have some serious, faithful seeking, soul searching to do in order to have any kind of relationship with God and His truth being revealed to, and lived out by you.

...a good start would be to read and listen and learn truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Verna,

What perfect law are you keeping by condemning all who do not see eye to eye with you? There are several posters on this forum who do the exact same thing. I will refrain from calling them by name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I believe my OP states it pretty clearly Heartsong...it is the word of God...pure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
How do you interpret the following:

Galatians 5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

12I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Sometimes Paul's words are hard to understand, but he always upheld The Ten Commandments. So with that in mind, what does Galatians 5:1-14 truly mean...

Galatians 5:

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty - From the ceremonial law - (*The Book Of The Law* which is NOT *The Book Of The Covenant* otherwise called: *The Ten Commandments*. Please go to my thread entitiled: "The Chronology of the Covenants" and read it.) Wherewith Christ hath made us - And all believers, free; and be not entangled again with the "yoke of legal bondage" - which again, is also called, *The Book Of The Law*, which again, IS NOT *THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT* - otherwise called, *THE TEN COMMANDMENTS*.

*Note to lee: Once you clear this ^^^ up in your mind and heart (the difference between the TWO LAWS), you will better understand the truth of God's word in its entirety.


2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

5:2 If you're circumcised and think that serves to justify you, then Christ will profit you nothing...for you do not acknowledge Christ and forfeit all the blessings which come through faith in Him.



3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

5:3 I testify to every man (gentile) that is circumcised, he himself is in debt to DO the WHOLE law...as is every man (Jew) who is circumcised, is in debt to DO the WHOLE law as well. Paul is stating here that whether or not Jew and/or Gentile is or is not circumcised does not mean anything...it was an act of legalism that had nothing to do with anything. This belief went along with all the other acts of legalism that was commanded in The Book Of The Law which was added to The Book Of The Covenant...only it was placed OUTSIDE of the ark...as a "witness against Israel" or "a yoke of bondage" for their disobedience and unbelief in the wilderness.



4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5:4 Therefore you who seek to be justified by the law of circumcision, Christ is become of no effect to you. You are fallen from grace. You renounce the new covenant. You disclaim the benefit of this gracious dispensation.



5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

5:5 For we - Who believe in Christ, Who are under the gospel dispensation. Through the Spirit, without any of those carnal ordinances (The Book Of The Law, the second covenant of God made with the Israelites in Moab), wait for, in sure confidence of attaining the hope of righteousness. The righteousness we hope for, and full reward of it. This righteousness we receive of God through faith; and by faith we shall obtain the reward.



6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

5:6 For in Christ Jesus, according to the institution which he hath established, according to the tenor of the Christian covenant, neither circumcision, with the most punctual observance of the law, nor uncircumcision, with the most exact heathen morality, availeth anything toward present justification or eternal salvation. But faith alone; even that faith which worketh by love...which THIS "love" IS! All inward and outward holiness.



7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

5:7 You did run well in the race of faith. Who has hindered you in your course, that you should not still obey the truth?



8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

5:8 This your present persuasion cometh not from God, who called you to his kingdom and glory...it is of the devil who has lied to you from the beginning and led you into believing these lies...and now you walk in these lies and teach them to others...forsaking the truth in keeping God's Ten Commandments which NEVER went anywhere !...they are FOREVER to be observed...they were placed INSIDE the ark of the Covenant to be REMEMBERED forever!



9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump - One troubler, ver.10, troubles all. This "troubler" is one who says to you that you must be circumcised to be justified...or in other words, living under the rule of The Book Of The Law and forsaking living under the rule of The Book Of The Covenant, which is The Ten Commandments.



10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

5:10 Paul is stating that he still has confidence that after they have read this, they will not be persuaded to believe different than what Paul is trying to teach them...that they will remain "like-minded" as he is. But he that troubleth them/you by lying to them/you...attempting to seduce them/you, shall bear his judgment.



11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

5:11 But if I still preach circumcision, as that troubler seems to have affirmed, probably taking occasion from his having circumcised Timothy. Why do I still suffer persecution? Then is the offence of the cross ceased - The reason why the Jews were so offended at his preaching Christ crucified, and so bitterly persecuted him for it, was, that it implied the abolition of the law (The Book Of The Law - the "ceremonial law" - The "witness against them" - the "yoke of bondage" given to them at Moab....Not The Book Of The Covenant (The Ten Commandments), given to them at Horeb on top of Mount Sanai. Yet, Paul did not condemn the conforming, out of condescension to the weakness of any one, even to the ceremonial law; but he did absolutely condemn those who taught it as necessary to justification.



12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

5:12 I would they were even cut off - From your communion; cast out of your church, that thus trouble you.



13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

5:13 You have been called to liberty, from sin and misery, as well as from the ceremonial law. Only, do not use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh...take not occasion to gratify corrupt nature, but by love serve one another - And hereby show that Christ has made you free.



14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself - inasmuch as none can do this without loving God, 1John 4:12; and the love of God and man includes all perfection. Lev 19:18.



15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

5:15 But if those "troublers" have caused dividion among you, and you bite one another b y evil speaking...take heed that you be not concumed by one another by bitterness...strife...and contention...for it will consume your health and your strength and ruin your reputation...as well as harm your character.


16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:16 I say then...(Paul now explains what he proposed, Gal 5:13...Walk by the Spirit...follow his guidance in all things, and fulfil not, in anything, the desire of the flesh...of corrupt nature.



17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:17 For the flesh is against the Spirit...the flesh is contrary to the Spirit of God. But the Spirit against the flesh...the Holy Spirit on his part opposes your evil nature. These are contrary to each other. The flesh and the Spirit; there can be no agreement between them. That ye may not do the things which ye would...that being strengthened by the Spirit, you may not fulfil the desire of the flesh, as otherwise ye would do.



18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

5:18 But if>>>IF!<<<!>>>IF!<<< ye are led by the Spirit - Of liberty and love, >>>>into all holiness<<<<...>>>THEN!<<<!>>>THEN!<<< Ye are not under the law...not under the curse or bondage of it; not under the guilt or the power of sin.



19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest. plain and undeniable. Works are mentioned in the plural because they are distinct from, and often inconsistent with, each other. But the fruit of the Spirit is mentioned in the singular, Ga 5:22, as being all consistent and connected together. Which are these - He enumerates those works of the flesh to which the Galatians were most inclined; and those parts of the fruit of the Spirit of which they stood in the greatest need. Lasciviousness - The Greek word means anything inward or outward that is contrary to chastity, and yet short of actual uncleanness.
Commentary by Wesley.



20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft - That this means witchcraft, strictly speaking, (not poisoning,) appears from its being joined with the worship of devil - gods, and not with murder. This is frequently and solemnly forbidden in the Old Testament. To deny therefore that there is, or ever was, any such thing, is, by plain consequence, to deny the authority both of the Old and New Testament. Divisions - In domestic or civil matters. Heresies are divisions in religious communities.
Commentary by Wesley.



21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

5:21 Revellings - Luxurious entertainments. Some of the works here mentioned are wrought principally, if not entirely, in the mind; and yet they are called works of the flesh. Hence it is clear, the apostle does not by the flesh mean the body, or sensual appetites and inclinations only, but the corruption of human nature, as it spreads through all the powers of the soul, as well as all the members of the body. Of which I tell you before - Before the event, I forewarn you.
Commentary by Wesley.



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

5:22 Love - The root of all the rest. Gentleness - Toward all men; ignorant and wicked men in particular. Goodness - The Greek word means all that is benign, soft, winning, tender, either in temper or behaviour.
Commentary by Wesley.


23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5:23 Meekness - Holding all the affections and passions in even balance.
Wesley.


24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

5:24 And they that are Christ's - True believers in him. Have thus crucified the flesh - Nailed it, as it were, to a cross whence it has no power to break loose, but is continually weaker and weaker. With its affections and desires - All its evil passions, appetites, and inclinations.
Wesley.


25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

5:25 If we live by the Spirit - If we are indeed raised from the dead, and are alive to God, by the operation of his Spirit. Let us walk by the Spirit - Let us follow his guidance, in all our tempers, thoughts, words, and actions.
Wesley.


26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
5:26 Be not desirous of vain glory - Of the praise or esteem of men. They who do not carefully and closely follow the Spirit, easily slide into this: the natural effects of which are, provoking to envy them that are beneath us, and envying them that are above us.
Wesley.


...blessings lee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Why am I not surprised you still haven't explained what Galatians means? You are like another on here on the Catholic thread, that only spouts off the same thing over and over like a robot who is programmed, then when someone shows you scripture that contradicts your belief, you throw up a wall, cover your eyes, and yell...you need the truth!

Seriously, Verna. Your whole post boils down to one question. What are the "commandments" that Jesus is speaking of. I answered that question. It's the commands He gave while here on earth.

It doesn't matter if you like my answer or not. Stop stalling. It's your turn to answer about Galatians. Do you not think everyone who reads this can see what you're doing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Verna,

What perfect law are you keeping by condemning all who do not see eye to eye with you? There are several posters on this forum who do the exact same thing. I will refrain from calling them by name.

She is very good at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
The "Law" specifically referred to throughout the book of Galatians is from Mount Sinai until the Seed - Messiah Lord Jesus.

Galatians 3:16-18

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

I recommend meditating/chewing on this verse for a little while. We have completely bypassed Moses altogether by 430 years earlier.

YHWH God's unconditional covenant with Abraham - the promise of the Seed Messiah.

Genesis 121Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.Genesis 1512And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis 17:6
And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

The promise of the "seed" goes back to Genesis 3.

The Promise was to Abraham 430 years prior to Moses. 430 years earlier than Mount Sinai. Circumsion is not referring to the Ceremonial Law only, but to the entire Law given to Moses.

Than why the Law?

Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Paul also makes a point that the Mosaic Law on Mount Sinai was given through a mediator. The LORD's unconditional covenant to Abraham had no mediator.

Those "Keeping the Law" for Justification are considered "Adulterers" (Spiritually) by Paul because those Baptized by the Holy Ghost are considered dead. The Law cannot try a dead person twice.

Romans 7

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The Abrahamic unconditional Covenant was established 430 years prior to the giving of "the Law" on Mt. Sinai.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The second covenant was punitive and a discipline and was added because of transgression of the original covenant.

Gal 3:19 (PAUL) "Wherefore then serveth the law? [book of the law - the ceremonial laws] IT WAS ADDED because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The Mosaic law consisted of the ten words, commandments, judgments, statutes and ordinances found in the book of the covenant and the book of the law combined.

******************************

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 (KJV)

That verse is referring to The Law of Ordinances that regulated the priesthood and the rites and sacrifices that went with the Levitical Priesthood. (Those laws were abolished at the cross of Jesus Christ.) No law can forgive sins (justification). No law can deliver us from the power of our sin nature. We must have faith in Jesus Christ!

The saints of the Old Testament also had faith and believed the gospel! Every time they offered a lamb, they were looking forward to "The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world."

Old traditions are hard to give up! For centuries, natural Israel had offered the sacrifices of the "yoke of bondage." and some Jewish Christians were still doing those works of the law.

In the verse above, Paul is exhorting them to stop doing the carnal ordinances because all the promises of God are fulfilled in Christ.

The scriptures teach us that once we are forgiven, we must submit ourselves to the Lordship of Christ. We do that by obeying His Commandments.

(Here is a good opportunity for me to compare The Law Of Ordinances with The Ten Commandmants.)

1. The Law of Ordinances is the carnal law. "The Holy Ghost" this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and CARNAL ORDINANCES, imposed on them until the time of reformation." Heb 9:8-10 (KJV)

2. The Ten Commandments is the spiritual law. (It is the law that defines sin):

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. **Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Rom 7:7 (KJV)

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:14 (KJV)

"That the righteousness of **the law might be fulfilled IN US**, who walk not after the flesh, but AFTER THE SPIRIT. Rom 8:14 (KJV)

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14 (KJV)

Conclusion: The Law of Ordinances was abolished at the cross. Sin is transgression of The Ten Commandments. We must have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for the forgivenss of sins. Christians must obey The Ten Commandments for Jesus to be our Lord. The sons of
God obey The Ten Commandments through the enabling power of The Holy Spirit.



...blessings mzjamiedawn and lee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 10:27 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,590,696 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...if you want eternal life with God the Father in heaven, you must...no matter what you may have been taught all of your life...and no matter what you may believe otherwise...if it is contrary to the word of God in the command to keep His Ten Commandments...INCLUDING the 4th one, to keep the Sabbath day holy unto God...the seventh day...and do no work or trade on this day...you are most unfortunately believing and living a lie...and if you continue....no matter how "good" of a person you think of yourself...no matter how often you do "good" things for others...no matter what pedistal you place yourself upon for whatever reason...you are living a lie.

You must truly repent of your sins, once and for all time, and make an everlasting covenant (promise) with God to not willfully sin any longer, and THEN and only THEN are you born again...He will then fill you with the Holy Spirit of God to give you the power to overcome any obsticle that may come your way...you always have a choice between doing right or doing wrong...and as long as you choose to do right, He will bless you...but if you choose to do wrong...transgressing any one of the ten commandments...on purpose...after you have been given the Holy Spirit...this means you never truly repented at all...you lied to God...therefore, you were never His child...but the child of the devil...the father of lies...to have the blessed hope of eternal life...to be assured that He knows and abides IN you...to be sure that He knows you and loves you...you must love God by keeping His Ten Commandments and not transgressing any one of them...otherwise you are no different than any other wicked sinner on the face of this planet...no different than the worldly one's...and God is not your Father...for He is not the Father of wickedness...iniquities...lies and transgressions.

God is holy...and to know Him and for Him to know you...you must be holy...you MUST FIRST! seek His Kingdom and His righteousness...THEN! all these things shall be added unto you...there is no other way.


esus said, "If ye love Me, keep My Commandments."
John 14:15 - King James Version.

ohn, Jesus' precious disciple, who loved Him dearly and faithfully, spoke through the precious Holy Spirit, telling us what this "love" is..."For this is the love of God, that we keep His Commandments: and they are not grievous."
1 John 5:3 - King James version.

n order to have the slightest hope of life eternal, John tells us what is required of us...he states under the power of the Holy Spirit, "And He taught me and said to me, “Confirm my word in your heart; keep my commandments and live, and my law like the pupils of the eyes.”
Proverbs 7:2 - Aramaic Bible in Plain English.

o abide IN the love of God, John teaches us how to be loved by Him..."If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and I abide in his love.”
John 15:10 - Aramaic Bible in Plain English.




he en ommandments
Exodus 20:1-20.


And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.


Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, ...nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife,...nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.




I pray to God you read these words with an open heart and hearken unto Him who speaks them.

God Bless you.



Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna.
Quote:
...if you want eternal life with God the Father in heaven
Verna, let me say first I totally agree with you we are to obey God's commandments. And next let me say I'm not trying to be a smart alec here just trying to get you to think.

Now having said the above, I believe I'm correct that you don't believe in a rapture? I don't either. Tthe Scriptures teach resurrection not rapture. Messiah was quite clear that He would raise up those who died believing in Him at the last day of this earth age.

Apparantly the Thessalonians were told their believing loved ones who were already dead, were "lost" and so Paul wrote 1 Thess. 4 to remind them Messiah would raise them up at the last day of this earth age. That's exactly why in v.16 Paul stated, "the dead in Christ shall rise [it's not the word 'ascend' but means to rise to live again] FIRST," and those believers, alive, at that moment, cannot preceed [change from mortal to immortal] them."

Side note here: This also shows that Messiah's return cannot happen at any moment because there's at least ONE event that has to happen first; the dead in Christ must resurrect first.

Oh, wait a minute. I thought those who died, believing in Messiah are already in heaven. Right? Hmmm....

So then, Verna I must ask you this. Messiah taught from the OT and it says nothing about ppl going to heaven upon death and Messiah Himself said He'd raise "them" up at the last day...then how do 'we' get to heaven in the first place?

But more importantly. If Messiah is returning to the earth; why would we want to be anywhere else?

Last edited by mshipmate; 03-19-2012 at 10:57 AM.. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,227,084 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Verna, let me say first I totally agree with you we are to obey God's commandments. And next let me say I'm not trying to be a smart alec here just trying to get you to think.

Now having said the above, I believe I'm correct that you don't believe in a rapture?
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
...I don't either. The Scriptures teach resurrection not rapture. Messiah was quite clear that He would raise up those who died believing in Him at the last day of this earth age.

Apparantly the Thessalonians were told their believing loved ones who were already dead, were "lost" and so Paul wrote 1 Thess. 4 to remind them Messiah would raise them up at the last day of this earth age. That's exactly why in v.16 Paul stated, "the dead in Christ shall rise [it's not the word 'ascend' but means to rise to live again] FIRST," and those believers, alive, at that moment, cannot preceed [change from mortal to immortal] them."

Side note here: This also shows that Messiah's return cannot happen at any moment because there's at least ONE event that has to happen first; the dead in Christ must resurrect first.

Oh, wait a minute. I thought those who died, believing in Messiah are already in heaven. Right? Hmmm....

So then, Verna I must ask you this. Messiah taught from the OT and it says nothing about ppl going to heaven upon death and Messiah Himself said He'd raise "them" up at the last day...then how do 'we' get to heaven in the first place?

But more importantly. If Messiah is returning to the earth; why would we want to be anywhere else?
I don't understand your question mshipmate...I appologize.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 11:14 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,590,696 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Correct.

I don't understand your question mshipmate...I appologize.

Sorry about that. Let's see if I can clarify what I meant.

When Messiah said, "I will come again" He meant He will return to the earth. Right?

He also said the dead in Christ will not 'rise to life again' until He returns to the earth[on the last day of this earth age] or as He told Martha, "I will raise them up on the last day."

This tells us no one goes to heaven upon death, but must wait for Messiah's return So I must ask you this. So faithful believers don't go to heaven upon death then how did they get there?

Also at His return, those that are alive, will be changed [in the twinkling of an eye] from mortal to immortal. And since the "above" happens on the earth how do you figure we will live in heaven?

And since Messiah's reign will be on the earth why would you want to be in Heaven with God?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,787,297 times
Reputation: 549
Ok, so you're basically saying you believe the law spoken of in Galatians is referring to the law of ordinances, not the ten commandments, right?

I can understand that. I don't know why you get so defensive and start judging instead of just conversing. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. Now I think I do.

So let's say I agree with you. You keep referring to the commandment of the Sabbath like it's the most important one. I guess because it's the least one that people obey?

How are we, as Christians, supposed to keep the Sabbath holy? What must I do as far as the Sabbath, in order to please God?

After talking to a Jew on here, and hearing him describe how Jews keep the Sabbath, I'm assuming you do not keep it in the same way. Correct?

Thank you Verna.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top