U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-19-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
Reputation: 837

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Ok, so you're basically saying you believe the law spoken of in Galatians is referring to the law of ordinances, not the ten commandments, right?

I can understand that. I don't know why you get so defensive and start judging instead of just conversing. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. Now I think I do.

So let's say I agree with you. You keep referring to the commandment of the Sabbath like it's the most important one. I guess because it's the least one that people obey?

How are we, as Christians, supposed to keep the Sabbath holy? What must I do as far as the Sabbath, in order to please God?

After talking to a Jew on here, and hearing him describe how Jews keep the Sabbath, I'm assuming you do not keep it in the same way. Correct?

Thank you Verna.
The reason I tend to get a bit defensive mzjamiedawn is because as soon as I let my guard down...and "THINK" that people are genuinely asking me because they truly do want to know the truth...they then get the truth from me and turn on me in an instant and mock me for my answer...you have done this very thing to me before....you may have forgotten, but I have not.

You and I have already addressed this very subject...and that was the time you turned on me and mocked me. Do it to me once shame on you...do it to me twice, shame on me.

Look....respectfully....you don't need to concern yourself with this right now anyway...first...you must repent once and for all time and completely turn away from your sin for ever and for good, and become born again by the Spirit of God. If your heart is pure, and God sees that in you...He will bless you and open the eyes of your understanding...your good, sincere fruit will be noticed by me...and then I will be honored to go forth with you and help you by the Holy Spirit to lead you in the way you should go...for now...you just knowing what someone does or does not do to keep the Sabbath holy is neither here nor there...until you are ready to honor God in all of your life's ways...you need not be so concerned...yet. Upon your sincere...faithfull seeking of Christ, God will give you the answers you are looking for...and they may just come from me. ..only God knows.

God Bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-19-2012, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,790,923 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The reason I tend to get a bit defensive mzjamiedawn is because as soon as I let my guard down...and "THINK" that people are genuinely asking me because they truly do want to know the truth...they then get the truth from me and turn on me in an instant and mock me for my answer...you have done this very thing to me before....you may have forgotten, but I have not.

You and I have already addressed this very subject...and that was the time you turned on me and mocked me. Do it to me once shame on you...do it to me twice, shame on me.
I would like for you to show me where I mocked you. Debated you, probably. Mocked you, doubtful. It's just not my nature. However, if you show me where I did, I will definitely apologize and ask your forgiveness. No one should do that, and if I've done it, I will apologize.

Quote:
Look....respectfully....you don't need to concern yourself with this right now anyway...first...you must repent once and for all time and completely turn away from your sin for ever and for good, and become born again by the Spirit of God. If your heart is pure, and God sees that in you...He will bless you and open the eyes of your understanding...your good, sincere fruit will be noticed by me...and then I will be honored to go forth with you and help you by the Holy Spirit to lead you in the way you should go...for now...you just knowing what someone does or does not do to keep the Sabbath holy is neither here nor there...until you are ready to honor God in all of your life's ways...you need not be so concerned...yet. Upon your sincere...faithfull seeking of Christ, God will give you the answers you are looking for...and they may just come from me. ..only God knows.

God Bless.
Respectfully, I have already repented, confessed my belief, and been baptized. The only thing I don't do that many Christians will think I should, is go to an organized church. You don't either, so we have that in common.

I think the only problem you can have with me is that I don't believe the bible is infallible because man's hands has been in it too much, and I don't believe God will forsake you if willfully sin one time after repenting. And that's ok. The difference between me and you is, I respect your right to believe such things.

Other than that, I bet you and I have more in common than you think. Maybe not.

Anyway, if you'd like an apology from me, please show me where I mocked you, and I will humble myself and apologize.

Otherwise, thank you for the conversation. I'll ask other Christians about the Sabbath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 01:03 PM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,865,496 times
Reputation: 3724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The second covenant was punitive and a discipline and was added because of transgression of the original covenant.

Gal 3:19 (PAUL) "Wherefore then serveth the law? [book of the law - the ceremonial laws] IT WAS ADDED because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 5
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Exodus 12:40 << prior to Exodus 20
Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WAS GIVEN IN EXODUS 20. << Key point.

The 10 commandments was given on Mount Sinai by a mediator 430 years after God's unconditional covenant to Abraham. "The Law" being referred to is the whole Mosaic Law - initially given on Mount Sinai.

"The Law" that Paul is referring to is the whole Mosaic Law initiated on Mount Sinai with the giving of the 10 Commandments.

The 10 commandments were given through a mediator/angel at Mount Sinai.


Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

We are all saved as Abraham was 430 years prior to the Law being given on Mount Sinai through faith in the Seed of Promise - the Messiah.

It's a shame so many don't see it. So many blessings ruined by our legalistic mindset.

God bless you Verna. You can enjoy your Liberty in Christ receiving a blessing for celebrating the Sabbath knowing you have been Justified by Faith in Christ totally set apart from "the Law" as Paul defined it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Sorry about that. Let's see if I can clarify what I meant.

When Messiah said, "I will come again" He meant He will return to the earth. Right?

He also said the dead in Christ will not 'rise to life again' until He returns to the earth[on the last day of this earth age] or as He told Martha, "I will raise them up on the last day."

This tells us no one goes to heaven upon death, but must wait for Messiah's return So I must ask you this. So faithful believers don't go to heaven upon death then how did they get there?

Also at His return, those that are alive, will be changed [in the twinkling of an eye] from mortal to immortal. And since the "above" happens on the earth how do you figure we will live in heaven?

And since Messiah's reign will be on the earth why would you want to be in Heaven with God?
It is likely that some will go to be with Jesus when they die (see "high calling") and that others will sleep until judgement. Either way it does not matter or concern salvation since no matter what the right answer is - when we die the next thing we will see is Jesus. \o/ Hallalujah !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:22 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,579,401 times
Reputation: 4148
Just my thoughts:

Consciously dwelling on and attempting to follow a set of rules in an attempt to gain love and prove love is not freedom in Christ. That is the opposite of freedom.That is strangulation. Very nearly choking out the very love it is "supposed to" induce.

Love is not demanding.
Love is patient, kind, keeping no record of wrongs. Love is not boastful, proud. Love is not self-seeking, Love is not easily angered. Love never fails.

I can understand the fear of freedom. Some will scream and yell and say "you want to sin!" What is so ironic is that the more you focus on "sin", focusing on "law", the more you end up "sinning".

The more you focus on LOVE, the less you "sin". Again, where there is LOVE there is no NEED for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.

What is sin? Is it anything more than NON-love. The OPPOSITE of LOVE?


The law was our schoolteacher. To show us our shortcomings, our lack of love.

Jesus came and showed us LOVE. Jesus was the epitome of LOVE, and pointed the way to the FATHER. GOD IS LOVE. Human beings of course, try to destroy love. But love never fails. Love conquers all. Love was and will ALWAYS be resurrected. No matter what. In any and ALL situations. Even if we don't yet see the LAST WORD in all situations. LOVE was, is and WILL BE the last word. That is the indescribable hope. That is the POWER of LOVE. To me, that is the most important message of the cross.

Now then, why oh why do we not learn the lesson?
Why do we instead, turn back to the time BEFORE, when we were ignorant?

1 Corinthians - 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When completeness comes, what is in part dissapears. Why do we keep trying to make it re-appear and step back covering our eyes and refusing to see the true light? Why do we not see the big picture, the TRUE LESSON and move forward in LOVE??

peace..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2012, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,567,063 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Just my thoughts:

Consciously dwelling on and attempting to follow a set of rules in an attempt to gain love and prove love is not freedom in Christ. That is the opposite of freedom.That is strangulation. Very nearly choking out the very love it is "supposed to" induce.

Love is not demanding.
Love is patient, kind, keeping no record of wrongs. Love is not boastful, proud. Love is not self-seeking, Love is not easily angered. Love never fails.

I can understand the fear of freedom. Some will scream and yell and say "you want to sin!" What is so ironic is that the more you focus on "sin", focusing on "law", the more you end up "sinning".

The more you focus on LOVE, the less you "sin". Again, where there is LOVE there is no NEED for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.

What is sin? Is it anything more than NON-love. The OPPOSITE of LOVE?


The law was our schoolteacher. To show us our shortcomings, our lack of love.

Jesus came and showed us LOVE. Jesus was the epitome of LOVE, and pointed the way to the FATHER. GOD IS LOVE. Human beings of course, try to destroy love. But love never fails. Love conquers all. Love was and will ALWAYS be resurrected. No matter what. In any and ALL situations. Even if we don't yet see the LAST WORD in all situations. LOVE was, is and WILL BE the last word. That is the indescribable hope. That is the POWER of LOVE. To me, that is the most important message of the cross.

Now then, why oh why do we not learn the lesson?
Why do we instead, turn back to the time BEFORE, when we were ignorant?

1 Corinthians - 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When completeness comes, what is in part dissapears. Why do we keep trying to make it re-appear and step back covering our eyes and refusing to see the true light? Why do we not see the big picture, the TRUE LESSON and move forward in LOVE??

peace..

Wonderful post, Sparrow. I wonder if you are familiar with the term "Pain Body". It's a term I first heard used by Eckhart Tolle. He says that when we are 'unconscious' (dead in spirit), we dwell in and cling to what he calls the 'pain body'. He further states that some of us are actually addicted to pain and spiritual and emotional bondage -- it has a certain comfort for us because it feels so very familiar. Some people do not quite want to be truly and completely free. Some people enjoy dwelling in their old familiar pain of being separated from the body that is peaceful, well-nourished with love, full of light --- whole. Some people are not ready or willing to let go of fear, resentment, unforgiveness, etc. That might be the reason why some return to a place of (darkness) or ignorance. In the scripture it is called 'drawing back'.

Something concerning a friend just happened to me last night that didn't go the way I wanted and I was instantly tempted to nurse my sense of self pity. But I was also aware of it and able to reject the temptation because I understood that my ego was trying to gain the upper hand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2012, 12:38 AM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
Reputation: 5853
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Just my thoughts:

Consciously dwelling on and attempting to follow a set of rules in an attempt to gain love and prove love is not freedom in Christ. That is the opposite of freedom.That is strangulation. Very nearly choking out the very love it is "supposed to" induce.

Love is not demanding.
Love is patient, kind, keeping no record of wrongs. Love is not boastful, proud. Love is not self-seeking, Love is not easily angered. Love never fails.

I can understand the fear of freedom. Some will scream and yell and say "you want to sin!" What is so ironic is that the more you focus on "sin", focusing on "law", the more you end up "sinning".

The more you focus on LOVE, the less you "sin". Again, where there is LOVE there is no NEED for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.

What is sin? Is it anything more than NON-love. The OPPOSITE of LOVE?


The law was our schoolteacher. To show us our shortcomings, our lack of love.

Jesus came and showed us LOVE. Jesus was the epitome of LOVE, and pointed the way to the FATHER. GOD IS LOVE. Human beings of course, try to destroy love. But love never fails. Love conquers all. Love was and will ALWAYS be resurrected. No matter what. In any and ALL situations. Even if we don't yet see the LAST WORD in all situations. LOVE was, is and WILL BE the last word. That is the indescribable hope. That is the POWER of LOVE. To me, that is the most important message of the cross.

Now then, why oh why do we not learn the lesson?
Why do we instead, turn back to the time BEFORE, when we were ignorant?

1 Corinthians - 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When completeness comes, what is in part dissapears. Why do we keep trying to make it re-appear and step back covering our eyes and refusing to see the true light? Why do we not see the big picture, the TRUE LESSON and move forward in LOVE??

peace..
Another winner post, sparrow!! Still can't rep you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,460 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
It is likely that some will go to be with Jesus when they die (see "high calling") and that others will sleep until judgement. Either way it does not matter or concern salvation since no matter what the right answer is - when we die the next thing we will see is Jesus. \o/ Hallalujah !
With all due respect, Verna where does it state the "high calling" means some will go to be with Jesus when they die?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
With all due respect, Verna where does it state the "high calling" means some will go to be with Jesus when they die?
...with all due respect mshipmate ...it doesn't matter !...just be sure to be all you are commanded to be in God before you die ! I haven't been there yet !...cannot wait to get there !...when I do, I'll let you know how it went !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,460 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...with all due respect mshipmate ...it doesn't matter !...just be sure to be all you are commanded to be in God before you die ! I haven't been there yet !...cannot wait to get there !...when I do, I'll let you know how it went !
I'm sorry Verna, but IT DOES matter. The Scriptures DO NOT teach ppl go to heaven upon death. This was added by men and is a false teaching.

MANY ppl think they will wake up in heaven, and 'see Jesus.' It sounds like you think you're going to heaven also. Ppl do not have an immortal soul. We don't have a soul; we are a soul. Only God has immortality at this point in time.

ONLY the spirit [mind/breath] returns to God at death.

And another thing; the idea that a person will see Jesus face to face when they died is not Scriptural either. Read Ezek. and you will see only the elect will have "earned" the 'right' to see Him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top