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Old 03-15-2012, 10:16 PM
 
Location: bible center, Islampur, MSD, W.B. India, pin code-742304
65 posts, read 22,339 times
Reputation: 31
Default Criticism of Lutherís preface to Roman.

[LEFT][LEFT]Criticism of Lutherís preface to Roman.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]To start the criticism these opening words of Luther especially the emboldened ones must be understood first[/LEFT]
[LEFT]ďTo begin with, we have to become familiar with the vocabulary of the letter and know what St. Paul means by the words law, sin, grace, faith, justice, flesh, spirit, etc. Otherwise there is no use in reading it.Ē[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Since we canít contact Paul or Luther we canít know what they exactly meant by those words. In the contradictory and hard to understand bible verses only Christ-enlightened reason is our guide. After 50 years of Christfollowing especially among Muslims I am assured of having that to some degree. So I am going to explain what these words in bold means in the present context to me at least. Paulís and Lutherís context was very different from our context of the civilized democratic world. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Laws of bible 1st and 2nd commandment, are fundamental to Christianity. Every good lawís root is to teach and facilitate loving the neighbor. God, the unity of good, is the nearest neighbor. If I love neighbor then I canít deceive, steal, fornicate, kill etc. If I respectfully practice the law, my love for my neighbor increases and develops to benefit all. When parents or society tells not to harm but help others and one respectfully obeys, it becomes a habit to transform him and others. So law is a form of love. (Not the ruthless, unreasonable old testamentís or nonChristian religionsí rituals, customs and laws against which Paul fought or Catholicsí evil laws against which Luther fought). If one diligently follows love based laws his love increase and integrate him within and with others. Whatever we exercise increases it. Loveís nature is bonding.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Sin is pride-selfishness exercise which disjoins me within and with others making me weak unable to control to guide passions. Christ, the absolute love law, is the highest law. If we practice it, our love becomes absolutely strong. Then it integrates our soul parts so strongly that it canít be broken apart by tribulations and death. It is salvation. Love increase by working it, like every passion. So Christ exhorted so much to do love-works. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]So, the social and moral laws are the stepping stone to Christ, the absolute love law. Former is to be believed first before trying to believe Christ, the absolute law of love. Otherwise we can delude ourselves by thinking that we believe, conjuring up a imaginary body image of Christ, which is not Christ at all. Then our criminal nature remains unconverted. No wonder that Lutheran Germany started all the world wars.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] Grace is the good influence of Christ and God when they come near a repentant sinner. Every material or spiritual body influences nearer ones. Bigger or nearer the bodies, stronger the influence like magnetic and gravitational influences. But if one rejects them by disobeying, they go away and grace inductance vanishes. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Faith is a form of love. If I love parents or God, (unity of good) I come to believe them, otherwise not. Forcing one to obey law by force may make rebellious. But parents, doctors and state often find it necessary to use mild force. When latter one finds the gain he obeys spontaneously. It happens to majority. When I see the gain by believing and working the laws of parentsí, doctorsí, teachersí; my faith increases. So working is necessary to increase faith too. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Justice is now in evaluation sense, not condemnation sense as it was in Paulís and Lutherís time. Then almost all were capital punishment. Our judges now evaluate a criminal to choose a reforming program. Very rarely they condemn to death. Better than them must our Heavenly Father, who never condemns even the Devil. Besides, He being the origin, every judgment reverts back to Him. Christ rejected Old testamentís jew god is not Heavenly Father. Spurious hell-condemning Revelation is manufactured by power hungry church leaders to present a worse than devil god to terrorize people to subjection. It blasphemes against God and degrades people to atheism and agnosticism.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]It is we, not Heavenly Father, who condemn each other to our own created hate-hell, being heaven fallen love-rejecters. So Father sent Christ to teach us not to make hate-hell but love-heaven. So Christ forbade us to judge others in condemning sense. But we must always judge in evaluating sense as Christ also did.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Flesh is a neutral material thing. But we, being heaven-fallen love rejecters, use it pervertedly by our rebellious passions. Homeless evil we entered in animalís body of flesh to use it in evil way. It is not the fault of flesh but our weakness. We all fell due to pride-selfishness (original sin)from an old pride-infected infighting (Rev12-7) disintegrating heaven. Every soul, society and organization is created in self-sacrificing love and is destroyed when pride enters. Spiritual organization Heaven is also such way created and destroyed. But some souls repent and being united Christ create new Heavenly Father elsewhere. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Spirit means Holy Spirit. It is the encouraging influence of Christ and Heavenly Father on repentant souls when they come near them. Grace is the good effect of it in us. Every material or spiritual body exerts influence on their near ones. Evil spirit is similar bad encouraging influence when devil comes near the doers of hate-deeds. Like invites like. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]If we evaluate Lutherís preface in these meanings the whole thing becomes irrelevant in modern context. Paul and Luther are fallible sinners like us, relevant in their respective milieu and context. But Christ and Heavenly Father is eternal in absolute love context. Besides Luther never stressed on repentance it seems. But it is a essential for evil us, especially for original sin(pride-corruption of us when in heaven), which is the root of all sin. To be popular, Churches put it down on God stating unjustly that He made us to inherit it from Adam and Eve. No! As we were rebellious like them we choose their line to be born in. [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Lutherís rebellion against catholic churchís ritualistic legalism pushed him to the other extreme. So he declared all laws to be useless, stressing only on inner motive. He prescribed illusive faith as magic agent to reform our most evil universal inner motive. Nothing happens like that as my experiences in my 50 yearsí serious Christ-following life prove. Good law especially Christ based law practice can only reform our evil inner motive. Even if good inner motive can be injected, its effect will be momentary as every foreign thing is bound to be rejected by our body and spiritual organization system.[/LEFT]
[LEFT][/LEFT][/LEFT]
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:58 AM
 
4,886 posts, read 1,369,209 times
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Impossible to read this post!
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:37 AM
 
467 posts, read 151,873 times
Reputation: 31
stephen santanu goswami
Good to meet you..
I hope all is well..

The scriptures warn us in Prophesy about "Luther the heretic!"

The is PROPHESY..found in the scriptures!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

stephen santanu goswami Luther was a Catholic Priest!
Luther was AMONG Catholic's!
stephen santanu goswami It cannot work in the other direction.. "The Catholic Church was NOT among Luther"!
Thus proving "Luther the Heretic"!
Thus proving all the "re-former's" Luther's prodigy have a Heretic as "father"!
All protestants come from the Heretic Martin Luther!

The Scripture prophesy continues...
2 peter 2:2 proves the Holy Catholic Church is "The WAY OF TRUTH"!
Luther came FROM "The Way Of truth"!
The Way Of Truth did not come out of Luther!
Thus proving again; The "Holy Catholic Church MUST be The Way Of Truth!
Thus PROVING, all protestant churches are not, they cannot be "The Way Of Truth!"

Catholic believe the scriptures..

Dogknox
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:04 PM
 
Location: bible center, Islampur, MSD, W.B. India, pin code-742304
65 posts, read 22,339 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Impossible to read this post!
Please reread. My main point is that love bonded unbreakable unity of soul parts is salvation. That love increases by prcticing laws christ bade, particulaly 2nd commandment.So obeying good laws is a must.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: bible center, Islampur, MSD, W.B. India, pin code-742304
65 posts, read 22,339 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Impossible to read this post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
stephen santanu goswami
Good to meet you..
I hope all is well..

The scriptures warn us in Prophesy about "Luther the heretic!"

The is PROPHESY..found in the scriptures!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought themóbringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

stephen santanu goswami Luther was a Catholic Priest!
Luther was AMONG Catholic's!
stephen santanu goswami It cannot work in the other direction.. "The Catholic Church was NOT among Luther"!
Thus proving "Luther the Heretic"!
Thus proving all the "re-former's" Luther's prodigy have a Heretic as "father"!
All protestants come from the Heretic Martin Luther!

The Scripture prophesy continues...
2 peter 2:2 proves the Holy Catholic Church is "The WAY OF TRUTH"!
Luther came FROM "The Way Of truth"!
The Way Of Truth did not come out of Luther!
Thus proving again; The "Holy Catholic Church MUST be The Way Of Truth!
Thus PROVING, all protestant churches are not, they cannot be "The Way Of Truth!"

Catholic believe the scriptures..

Dogknox
I was also baptised by the catholic church 52 years ago and has studied in their seminary. they sent me to my present 26 year long mission among muslims. Now i have come to the truth that only living Christ saves if I obey and he is with me. Nor church can save neither any manmade scripture.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:30 PM
 
21,867 posts, read 9,719,116 times
Reputation: 3702
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen santanu goswami View Post
[LEFT][LEFT]Criticism of Lutherís preface to Roman.
To start the criticism these opening words of Luther especially the emboldened ones must be understood first
ďTo begin with, we have to become familiar with the vocabulary of the letter and know what St. Paul means by the words law, sin, grace, faith, justice, flesh, spirit, etc. Otherwise there is no use in reading it.Ē
Since we canít contact Paul or Luther we canít know what they exactly meant by those words. In the contradictory and hard to understand bible verses only Christ-enlightened reason is our guide. After 50 years of Christfollowing especially among Muslims I am assured of having that to some degree. So I am going to explain what these words in bold means in the present context to me at least. Paulís and Lutherís context was very different from our context of the civilized democratic world.
Laws of bible 1st and 2nd commandment, are fundamental to Christianity. Every good lawís root is to teach and facilitate loving the neighbor. God, the unity of good, is the nearest neighbor. If I love neighbor then I canít deceive, steal, fornicate, kill etc. If I respectfully practice the law, my love for my neighbor increases and develops to benefit all. When parents or society tells not to harm but help others and one respectfully obeys, it becomes a habit to transform him and others. So law is a form of love. (Not the ruthless, unreasonable old testamentís or nonChristian religionsí rituals, customs and laws against which Paul fought or Catholicsí evil laws against which Luther fought). If one diligently follows love based laws his love increase and integrate him within and with others. Whatever we exercise increases it. Loveís nature is bonding.
Sin is pride-selfishness exercise which disjoins me within and with others making me weak unable to control to guide passions. Christ, the absolute love law, is the highest law. If we practice it, our love becomes absolutely strong. Then it integrates our soul parts so strongly that it canít be broken apart by tribulations and death. It is salvation. Love increase by working it, like every passion. So Christ exhorted so much to do love-works.
So, the social and moral laws are the stepping stone to Christ, the absolute love law. Former is to be believed first before trying to believe Christ, the absolute law of love. Otherwise we can delude ourselves by thinking that we believe, conjuring up a imaginary body image of Christ, which is not Christ at all. Then our criminal nature remains unconverted. No wonder that Lutheran Germany started all the world wars.
Grace is the good influence of Christ and God when they come near a repentant sinner. Every material or spiritual body influences nearer ones. Bigger or nearer the bodies, stronger the influence like magnetic and gravitational influences. But if one rejects them by disobeying, they go away and grace inductance vanishes.
Faith is a form of love. If I love parents or God, (unity of good) I come to believe them, otherwise not. Forcing one to obey law by force may make rebellious. But parents, doctors and state often find it necessary to use mild force. When latter one finds the gain he obeys spontaneously. It happens to majority. When I see the gain by believing and working the laws of parentsí, doctorsí, teachersí; my faith increases. So working is necessary to increase faith too.
Justice is now in evaluation sense, not condemnation sense as it was in Paulís and Lutherís time. Then almost all were capital punishment. Our judges now evaluate a criminal to choose a reforming program. Very rarely they condemn to death. Better than them must our Heavenly Father, who never condemns even the Devil. Besides, He being the origin, every judgment reverts back to Him. Christ rejected Old testamentís jew god is not Heavenly Father. Spurious hell-condemning Revelation is manufactured by power hungry church leaders to present a worse than devil god to terrorize people to subjection. It blasphemes against God and degrades people to atheism and agnosticism.
It is we, not Heavenly Father, who condemn each other to our own created hate-hell, being heaven fallen love-rejecters. So Father sent Christ to teach us not to make hate-hell but love-heaven. So Christ forbade us to judge others in condemning sense. But we must always judge in evaluating sense as Christ also did.
Flesh is a neutral material thing. But we, being heaven-fallen love rejecters, use it pervertedly by our rebellious passions. Homeless evil we entered in animalís body of flesh to use it in evil way. It is not the fault of flesh but our weakness. We all fell due to pride-selfishness (original sin)from an old pride-infected infighting (Rev12-7) disintegrating heaven. Every soul, society and organization is created in self-sacrificing love and is destroyed when pride enters. Spiritual organization Heaven is also such way created and destroyed. But some souls repent and being united Christ create new Heavenly Father elsewhere.
Spirit means Holy Spirit. It is the encouraging influence of Christ and Heavenly Father on repentant souls when they come near them. Grace is the good effect of it in us. Every material or spiritual body exerts influence on their near ones. Evil spirit is similar bad encouraging influence when devil comes near the doers of hate-deeds. Like invites like.
If we evaluate Lutherís preface in these meanings the whole thing becomes irrelevant in modern context. Paul and Luther are fallible sinners like us, relevant in their respective milieu and context. But Christ and Heavenly Father is eternal in absolute love context. Besides Luther never stressed on repentance it seems. But it is a essential for evil us, especially for original sin(pride-corruption of us when in heaven), which is the root of all sin. To be popular, Churches put it down on God stating unjustly that He made us to inherit it from Adam and Eve. No! As we were rebellious like them we choose their line to be born in.
Lutherís rebellion against catholic churchís ritualistic legalism pushed him to the other extreme. So he declared all laws to be useless, stressing only on inner motive. He prescribed illusive faith as magic agent to reform our most evil universal inner motive. Nothing happens like that as my experiences in my 50 yearsí serious Christ-following life prove. Good law especially Christ based law practice can only reform our evil inner motive. Even if good inner motive can be injected, its effect will be momentary as every foreign thing is bound to be rejected by our body and spiritual organization system.
[/LEFT][/LEFT]
Stephen always copy the original cut and paste into the Notepad to strip all the extraneous crap from it . Then copy paste FROM the Notepad . It makes things so much more readable.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:11 AM
Status: "Raging At The Machine!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
2,460 posts, read 668,086 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen santanu goswami View Post
Please reread. My main point is that love bonded unbreakable unity of soul parts is salvation. That love increases by prcticing laws christ bade, particulaly 2nd commandment.So obeying good laws is a must.
Please repost in a readable form. Thanks
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:22 PM
 
467 posts, read 151,873 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen santanu goswami View Post
I was also baptised by the catholic church 52 years ago and has studied in their seminary. they sent me to my present 26 year long mission among muslims. Now i have come to the truth that only living Christ saves if I obey and he is with me. Nor church can save neither any manmade scripture.
stephen santanu goswami I hope all is well..
I reply: The Catholic would not disagree... (What did you learn in seminary??)
Man does NOT need Church or Scriptures to enter heaven..
The Thief on the Cross ended up in Paradise, there was NO CHURCH or scriptures! (YET)
Paradise is in heaven!!

Scriptures are very, very clear..
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
stephen santanu goswami Did you see it? "God is Love"!

You would have to reject this verse (below) to believe you need Church & Scriptures"!!
1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

stephen santanu goswami Did you see it? "God is LOVE"... If you have LOVE then you have God!!!

LOGIC ALONE tells you.. "God would not put you into the Lake of Fire, if He is IN YOU"!

You MUST LOVE to enter heaven!!

Jesus is the Door all must enter through the door of LOVE!

Dogknox
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:07 AM
 
Location: bible center, Islampur, MSD, W.B. India, pin code-742304
65 posts, read 22,339 times
Reputation: 31
Thanks! I fully agree. But trying to love I find my love falls far short of the pure spiritual love apostles mentioned. Sometimes I despair of my inability to love spiritually.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:10 PM
 
21,867 posts, read 9,719,116 times
Reputation: 3702
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen santanu goswami View Post
Thanks! I fully agree. But trying to love I find my love falls far short of the pure spiritual love apostles mentioned. Sometimes I despair of my inability to love spiritually.
If it were easy, my brother . . . Christ would NOT have been necessary! We do our level best to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. The perfection and grace of Christ provides the cover for our failures (if we repent of them). THAT is the Gospel (Good News) . . . There is NO bad news.
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