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Unread 03-22-2012, 09:14 AM
 
4,703 posts, read 3,406,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post

There is mention of Eden in the same book as a town in either Ezekiel or Isaiah. I can't remember which one now and don't feel like looking it up. But this previous mention makes it highly unlikely that the author was talking about the Garden of Eden where Adam first lived.
BINGO!!! This is what I ALWAYS bring up to those who claim Ezekiel is talking about Satan, in the general understanding today. I think it is a previous or later chapter that clearly tells us that the king in question visited the city of Eden, being that it was one of his business partners. The mention of Eden usually leads some believers to ONLY think of Eden in the book of Genesis and of course, lead to INCORRECT conclusions about the passage.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,370 posts, read 882,091 times
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All it takes is a little studying and people will realize that it is not satan that is being spoken of
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Unread 03-22-2012, 10:41 AM
 
341 posts, read 124,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I believe it is the Jews that view the Satan as the flesh...But, also if the Satan is evil and sinful, one must ask then how was he in the presence of Yehovaw in the Book of Job?...Nothing sinful is permitted in His presence, so how can this be?...Is it because the Satan and Lucifer are two different entities, and the Satan is a tool used by Yehovaw for the testing and shaping of mankind?...haSatan in the Hebrew means tester or adversary, kinda like a prosecuting attorney...

Job 1:6 And a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah. And Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7 And Jehovah said to Satan, From where have you come? And Satan answered Jehovah and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil?
Job 1:9 And Satan answered Jehovah and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?
Job 1:10 Have You not made a hedge for him, and for his house, and for all that is his all around? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock have increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put out Your hand now, and touch against all that is his, and see if he will not then curse You to Your face.
Job 1:12 And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah.


How could this be???...HaSatan is before the very Face of Yehovaw...And not only that, but they are speaking to one another...Having a conversation...How is this???...
Hi Richard Satan is a created being and under God's authority, he is not a fallen Angel and he does what God told him to do. Think about it God asked Satan where he had been, and Satan said he was walking up and down on the earth. Remember Satan feast on dust, we are dust, he feast on the carnality of man , as 1 Peter 5:8 says Satan prowls the earth like a lion looking who he can devour. God knew where Satan has been and what he was doing, looking for someone to devour, so He said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job? He was setting Satan on Job to teach Job, and through him us an unimportant message about pride. Satan is the tempter and though him God teaches many lessons to us about our own failings and frailties.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 10:59 AM
 
341 posts, read 124,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
Jesus called Angels 'stars' - Rev.1:20

He said, He saw Satan falling
(like) lighting from heaven. - Matt.10:18
A reference of a shooting star.

Hi RevelationWriter, I think you mean Luke 10:18,

I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

But check out the rest of the story

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


When Jesus's seventy followers returned and said that even devils were subject to them in Jesus's name he told them I saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven, remember God resides in heaven and He resides in our hearts( heaven) so when Jesus said he saw Satan fall he was symbolically speaking of the fact that though the Holy Spirit Satan fell like lightning from their hearts( heaven ) we need to read the whole story to get the meaning.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
895 posts, read 379,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
BINGO!!! This is what I ALWAYS bring up to those who claim Ezekiel is talking about Satan, in the general understanding today. I think it is a previous or later chapter that clearly tells us that the king in question visited the city of Eden, being that it was one of his business partners. The mention of Eden usually leads some believers to ONLY think of Eden in the book of Genesis and of course, lead to INCORRECT conclusions about the passage.
Cool. No one ever gets back to me about that. Have they replied to you when you bring it up?
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Unread 03-22-2012, 12:58 PM
 
4,703 posts, read 3,406,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Cool. No one ever gets back to me about that. Have they replied to you when you bring it up?

Never.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
895 posts, read 379,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Never.
Ok. Thanks.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 09:42 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 632,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
~ Gentiles being grafted Into Israel is a false doctrine we've believed.

Gentiles "were grafted in Among them (in God's house) and With them
became a partaker of the root and the fatness of the Olive Tree." Rom.11:17

For God Said,
The Olive Tree is planted IN His House. - Jer.11:15,16
Not In Israel. -
God said, when Israel's backsliding is healed?
Their (Beauty) is (like) an Olive Tree. - Hos.14:6
Green Olive Tree (Lovely), and of Good Fruit
is the name of His Olive Tree IN His House. - Jer.11

Even David knew he was (like)
an Olive Tree IN God's House. - Ps.52:8
Not IN The House 0f Israel.

In Judges 9 is a interesting acessment of what
an Olive Tree does: Anointing God & Men.

My boast is not against those
broken off from The Olive Tree IN God's House.
But my boast is 'among' those not broken off.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,305 posts, read 2,264,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
Does Ezekiel and Isaiah really speak of the fall of "satan" aka the adversary, slanderer. i dont see where is speaks of such a thing. I used to think that the prince of tyre was satan but Ezek.28:2,9 makes it clear it was a man that is the subject of this chapter. What are your thoughts on this supposedly fall of satan? did it happen or was he a liar from the beggining?
I agree with you, Torpedos. Satan was not an angel. He was a created as a murderer, a waster to destroy. That is his purpose. God made satan for a purpose, and that purpose is something that most of Christianity doesn't want to accept yet.

Job got it right when he said, "should we accept the good from God, and not also the evil??" He knew that satan (which I personally believe means "flesh") is in God's control. Satan has never been out of God's control. God has a plan for each of us. If we can accept it, we are able to live in reconciliation with God in our hearts.

If you consider the issue of suffering, Christianity is truly divided. Some say that a true Christian should suffer, just as Christ did. Others (like certain popular preachers) say that Christians should never suffer, but be rich, healthy, etc.

But God's ways are not our ways. And they include suffering. Christ suffered. Job suffered. And God uses satan to teach us righteousness through suffering.

My 2c anyway..

Blessings,
brian
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Unread 03-23-2012, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,305 posts, read 2,264,678 times
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Lucifer – The Shinning One | Dimensions of Truth

My Beloved Enemy by Bill Britton | Dimensions of Truth


Blessings in Him!
brian
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