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Old 09-13-2007, 12:40 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,150,906 times
Reputation: 55550

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob View Post
Christianity is too hard. It's too complex. It seems like when it comes to knowing the faith, there is simply too much to remember. Too much to know. Anyone else agree with me on this?

How can simple people possibly keep up? I just want to believe in God and Jesus. I'm so sick of trying to figure out this religion.

It seems like people went from one system of laws in the Old Testament, and jumped right into a whole new system of rules and regulations in the New Testament. I thought the whole point of Jesus dying for us was to be our SAVIOR?? Didn't He take on all our sins and pay the penalty for all of them? Didn't He die because we couldn't possibly keep a system of rules in order to be saved? So why is it so hard?

Why is it every time I turn around, I'm seeing all this deep stuff about what it means to truly be spiritual, and how a true Christian will be this or that, and will strive to attain this or that level of such and such because the great essence of love and faith is to be here or there doing this and that while avoiding so and so, in the hopes of maintaining a pure heart and spirit so that his inner self can truly be free to love in such and such way, leading to blah blah blah. I read something tonight which basically parallels the following:

Man has an integral part in this process because society cannot, even by God, be established from a place outside of creation by force, but can only be grown from within by those who love. It doesn't, however, have to be begun by us. It is the kingdom of God which has already been established on earth in the man Christ Jesus. We can enter it here and now by the surrender of faith, obedience and commitment to him. To the great extent in which we do, he can use us as the instruments through whom he grants his love to others. Such a surrender involves the gift of the complete and whole personality with all its abilities. Therefore, obedience isn't achieved or fulfilled in a passive acceptance and execution of other's instructions, but rather means accepting your full part in the growth of the ordinary life, adding not only one's talents and capacities, but also one's striving desire to oversee the creation of a society of love, both within that community and in the surrounding world. And so that all may make their honest and sincere contribution, those in charge and indeed ALL believers must bear in mind that all other people, whether clergy or lay person as well as those interested in becoming either are gifted with a responsibility to themselves, community and the Holy Lord and God, which they singly and without outside influence can understand and commence.

Huh???

Seriously, reading all that was like reading through a 20 page, fine-print contract. I don't understand a word that is being said.

Honestly, does ANYONE actually GET it? And if so, how do you possibly remember it all on a daily basis? How does one consciously keep all that stuff in mind?

Oh, and please, mods - if this should be in the Christianity sub-forum, by all means move it.
hey you think this is hard.
try getting flogged and nailed to a cross
heck of a payback for doing a little preaching and healing
i dont know what kind of life you have been leading
but i did not get a lot of blah blah blah.
i have spent most of the time 2 steps ahead of the wolves
just like him
i dont have any holes in my hands yet but there were some near misses.
so i guess i am not your best guy to deal with the blah blah blah.
stephen s
san diego ca
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
2,800 posts, read 9,989,450 times
Reputation: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by kawgpz550
So the question is: how do children learn?
Children learn by imitating their parents. They trust their parents implicitly because the parents already shield their child against physical harm. This way children are totally depended upon their parents. Not only do children learn from their parents because parents teach their children what to do and what not to do, children also learn from the behaviour of their parents. Since communication in general is for 90% non-oral (body language) and only 5% oral (words) what you say is not as important as what you do. Whenever a child receives conflicting messages that what you do is more important than what you say.

The problem with being a Christian and wanting to learn is that it is hard to ‘adopt’ a parent from which to learn. There are so many churches that say different things about the same thing. As a child I was confronted with the different church’s behaviour. Even as a 10 year old I’ve read the story where Jesus said let the children come to me. And even then I already understood that Jesus meant all children, not just the Jewish children, or the Catholic children or the Protestant Children etc.

My father is a Catholic and my mother is a Protestant. As a child I could never understand the difference because they get along so well. I never noticed my father caring about symbolism or rituals, so as far as I was concerned there was no difference between a Catholic and a Protestant. Until at age around age 11 when cold hard reality slapped me in the face.
My father’s youngest brother is a Catholic priest in Indonesia and when he visited his mother in Holland we always go to his services. So when everyone went up to him to accept the Body of Christ I went up too and that is when my uncle refused to give me the Body of Christ. Merely because I did not undergo some Catholic ritual (= I am no Catholic). After the service I saw how distraught my mother was about all this. I never really cared about rituals and such but when I saw my mother like that I asked myself if Jesus would have refused me. Then I remembered the story when Jesus told his apostles to let the children come to him and I understood that Jesus never said let the Catholic children come to me, or the Protestant, or the Buddhist, or the atheist. If my father and mother can live together why can’t the churches do the same?
Would Jesus really refuse to give me his blessing because I'm not a Catholic like my father? My father doesn't care if I was a Catholic, a Protestant or a Buddhist. He accepted me the way I was.
Could God or Jesus really be any different?
I think not.
From that moment on I vowed never to become part of any church. Why would God need a church anyway?
Sometimes I even believe that the church is more concerned about the church than it’s people.
Actually, I think you miss the point about child like faith. It has nothing to do with learning from a parent. I understand what you're saying, but that isn't what this is about. If a child asks a question to a parent, the child believes the answer whether the parent's answer is correct or not.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:33 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,192,739 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by kawgpz550
Quote:
If a child asks a question to a parent, the child believes the answer whether the parent's answer is correct or not.
No it is not. As a child I already noticed that my parents do not always tell the truth. They tell you what they believe is true, or what they think you can handle as a child, but it is not the truth.
I learned early in life that if I really want answers, it is better to observe than to ask questions (which by the way is not so easy as it sounds).
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,299,852 times
Reputation: 1503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by kawgpz550
So the question is: how do children learn?
Children learn by imitating their parents. They trust their parents implicitly because the parents already shield their child against physical harm. This way children are totally depended upon their parents. Not only do children learn from their parents because parents teach their children what to do and what not to do, children also learn from the behaviour of their parents. Since communication in general is for 90% non-oral (body language) and only 5% oral (words) what you say is not as important as what you do. Whenever a child receives conflicting messages that what you do is more important than what you say.

The problem with being a Christian and wanting to learn is that it is hard to ‘adopt’ a parent from which to learn. There are so many churches that say different things about the same thing. As a child I was confronted with the different church’s behaviour. Even as a 10 year old I’ve read the story where Jesus said let the children come to me. And even then I already understood that Jesus meant all children, not just the Jewish children, or the Catholic children or the Protestant Children etc.

My father is a Catholic and my mother is a Protestant. As a child I could never understand the difference because they get along so well. I never noticed my father caring about symbolism or rituals, so as far as I was concerned there was no difference between a Catholic and a Protestant. Until at age around age 11 when cold hard reality slapped me in the face.
My father’s youngest brother is a Catholic priest in Indonesia and when he visited his mother in Holland we always go to his services. So when everyone went up to him to accept the Body of Christ I went up too and that is when my uncle refused to give me the Body of Christ. Merely because I did not undergo some Catholic ritual (= I am no Catholic). After the service I saw how distraught my mother was about all this. I never really cared about rituals and such but when I saw my mother like that I asked myself if Jesus would have refused me. Then I remembered the story when Jesus told his apostles to let the children come to him and I understood that Jesus never said let the Catholic children come to me, or the Protestant, or the Buddhist, or the atheist. If my father and mother can live together why can’t the churches do the same?
Would Jesus really refuse to give me his blessing because I'm not a Catholic like my father? My father doesn't care if I was a Catholic, a Protestant or a Buddhist. He accepted me the way I was.
Could God or Jesus really be any different?
I think not.
From that moment on I vowed never to become part of any church. Why would God need a church anyway?
Sometimes I even believe that the church is more concerned about the church than it’s people.
That's unfortunate. Sorry to hear about that experience.

I had a different one; while on retreat in arizona, there was a nunnery on the grounds ( I believe it was carmelite ). There was a mass scheduled, and some of the retreatents asked the sister if they could participate ( they too were not catholic ). The sister answered by asking what would Jesus do. "Come to me, all of you" .... "I am the bread of life".
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:55 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,192,739 times
Reputation: 1573
I understand. I had this experience right in my own home. My parents do not care about church doctrines. I was baptized a Protestant and was send to a Catholic school. I never cared about the difference because in my mind there was none.
Only when my uncle refused me the Body of Christ because he KNEW that I was not a Catholic did I realize that in the outside world there is a difference between a Protestant and a Catholic.
No matter what Jesus had done.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:07 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,853,741 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I understand. I had this experience right in my own home. My parents do not care about church doctrines. I was baptized a Protestant and was send to a Catholic school. I never cared about the difference because in my mind there was none.
Only when my uncle refused me the Body of Christ because he KNEW that I was not a Catholic did I realize that in the outside world there is a difference between a Protestant and a Catholic.
No matter what Jesus had done.
Not to get too OT, but am I to understand that if I, as a Protestant(Baptist) went to mass at a Catholic Church, I'd be denied the Lord's Supper, even as a professing follower of Jesus the Christ??

Catholics. is that true?
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,672 posts, read 22,222,800 times
Reputation: 21364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post



From that moment on I vowed never to become part of any church. Why would God need a church anyway?
Sometimes I even believe that the church is more concerned about the church than it’s people.
The church being made up of humans have made many, many mistakes throughout the years, but we, the living body of Christ, ARE the Church and we need each other. There is also power in worshipping corporately that is different than worshipping privately. We can give each other prayer support, guidance, comfort, "perspective" and needed reproof and all kinds of things within the church that is difficult to find it outside of it. Admittedly, some of these things can be found in other places, but not from the unique perspective that fellow members of the Body of Christ can give.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:35 AM
 
1,125 posts, read 3,517,844 times
Reputation: 440
I thought it was simple. According to what I have read from most posters, all that is necessary is a belief in Christ and one is saved, or is there more to it than I have been led to believe by what I have read?
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Wilmington, DE
679 posts, read 1,437,201 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
The fact that there are so many different denominations and interpretations just goes to show that Christianity is being made harder than it should be.
No, it speaks to the value of the base text due to it's ambiguity. No ambiguity, no different denominations.

Quote:
According to what I have read from most posters, all that is necessary is a belief in Christ and one is saved, or is there more to it than I have been led to believe by what I have read?
If that's all there is, then why is there such a big bible full of other things which contradict each other at times and have had so many people for so many centuries scratching their heads and debating what it all means? What you read in posts are just opinions. Sometimes someone will quote a line or two to support their opinion but then you can easily find another line that refutes that first line and then the head scratching and debating goes on, but at least that's better than killing anybody over it.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:50 AM
 
Location: God's Country
23,000 posts, read 34,288,819 times
Reputation: 31628
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL View Post
I thought it was simple. According to what I have read from most posters, all that is necessary is a belief in Christ and one is saved, or is there more to it than I have been led to believe by what I have read?
You're right it is just that simple.
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