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Old 04-03-2012, 03:20 AM
 
309 posts, read 436,843 times
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Was talking to a friend the other day and he brought up the topic that a family member of his was taking a class and the professor talked about Lazarus writing the book of John. When the family member got to researching it he said there was some evidence. Now I did research this a little bit myself and saw some things that do stick out to me, but not really sure which way to go with this topic. This is the first time I have ever heard that Lazarus wrote the book. Has anyone else here heard that or researched it?
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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NO!

What "evidence" ???????

Danged internet. Gresham's law in spades. Bad information does indeed drive out good.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:50 AM
 
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As far as his evidence I am not sure, but when I did look it up the one article I read showed a little, but not enough to sway me one way or another. What I found was that in the book of John and only in this Gospel does Jesus keep referring to the disciple whom he loved and when the messenger came to tell Jesus about Lazarus being sick he referred to Lazarus as whom you love. Now that is not solid evidence in anyway, but I can see this persons point of view after reading the entire article that he wrote. He is a link to the site that I read this from The Author of the Fourth Gospel There are more sites but haven't had time to look at them.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:51 AM
 
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When I studied the gospels, I was struck with the conclusion that 'Lazarus' had to be the 'disciple that Jesus loved' and is that shadowy un-named 'other' disciple' who was with Peter in the High Priest's house and with Andrew and Simon at the baptizing at the Jordan and indeed, standing by at the crucifixion and running along with Peter to view the empty tomb.

That certainly looks like John, the eyewitness whose testimony we can trust, though internal evidence suggests that his account was adapted by the person who actually produced the gospel of John which we now use.

For example, the Temple cleansing was an embarrassment, so it was pulled out of 12.20 and relocated at 2.14 and indeed the sermons are not even hinted at in the synoptics and must be ascribed to the redactor of the 'eyewitness'.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
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I don't see how we could ever know who wrote any of the books for certain. To me, it doesn't matter who wrote the book of John. I mean, it might be interesting to know, but that's not really possible to know, so why bother?

You know there are even people arguing over whether or not Shakespeare actually wrote the stuff that has his signature on it. I agree that the internet has let the information dog scramblers loose on the world! There are more pages on the internet right now than anyone could possibly read in their lifetime. Sobering thought.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
As far as his evidence I am not sure, but when I did look it up the one article I read showed a little, but not enough to sway me one way or another. What I found was that in the book of John and only in this Gospel does Jesus keep referring to the disciple whom he loved and when the messenger came to tell Jesus about Lazarus being sick he referred to Lazarus as whom you love. Now that is not solid evidence in anyway, but I can see this persons point of view after reading the entire article that he wrote. He is a link to the site that I read this from The Author of the Fourth Gospel There are more sites but haven't had time to look at them.
And which Disciple would that be?...I ask this because it sounds as if your post is referring to Lazarus as the Disciple He loved, however, the one that He loved is also referred to in the incident after the resurrection when Peter saw the one that Yeshua loved following them, etc....And in that same scene it is also pointed out that this was the Disciple that leaned against Yesha at the Passover Meal and asked, 'Who is it?', meaning the one who would betray Him...So, if it is Lazarus that you are referring to, he was not at the Passover Meal, Yeshua was there only with the 12...
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,937,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And which Disciple would that be?...I ask this because it sounds as if your post is referring to Lazarus as the Disciple He loved, however, the one that He loved is also referred to in the incident after the resurrection when Peter saw the one that Yeshua loved following them, etc....And in that same scene it is also pointed out that this was the Disciple that leaned against Yesha at the Passover Meal and asked, 'Who is it?', meaning the one who would betray Him...So, if it is Lazarus that you are referring to, he was not at the Passover Meal, Yeshua was there only with the 12...
RESPONSE:

>>Yeshua was there only with the 12<<

Really? What evidence do you have to support this view? Passover meals were usually large family gatherings.

Who cooked?

Another bit of evidence can be found in the gospel of John. It says that the disciple that Jesus loved remained at the foot of the cross with Mary whom he took into his house from that hour. Lazarath lived in Bethany a short distance from Jerusalem. The Apostle John's home was in Galilee about a three day journed from Jerusalem.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:21 AM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
When I studied the gospels, I was struck with the conclusion that 'Lazarus' had to be the 'disciple that Jesus loved' and is that shadowy un-named 'other' disciple' who was with Peter in the High Priest's house and with Andrew and Simon at the baptizing at the Jordan and indeed, standing by at the crucifixion and running along with Peter to view the empty tomb.

That certainly looks like John, the eyewitness whose testimony we can trust, though internal evidence suggests that his account was adapted by the person who actually produced the gospel of John which we now use.

For example, the Temple cleansing was an embarrassment, so it was pulled out of 12.20 and relocated at 2.14 and indeed the sermons are not even hinted at in the synoptics and must be ascribed to the redactor of the 'eyewitness'.
Joh 13:1 And before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He should move from this world to the Father, loving His own in the world, He loved them to the end.
Joh 13:2 And supper having occurred, the Devil having put already into the heart of Simon's son Judas Iscariot that he should betray Him,
Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father has given all things into His hands, and that He came out from God, and goes away to God,
Joh 13:4 He rose up from the supper and laid aside His garments. And taking a towel, He girded Himself.
Joh 13:5 Then He put water into the basin and began to wash the feet of the disciples, and to wipe off with the towel with which He was girded.
Joh 13:6 He then came to Simon Peter. And that one said to Him, Lord, do You wash my feet?
Joh 13:7 Jesus answered and said to him, What I am doing, you do not yet know. But you will know after these things.
Joh 13:8 Peter said to Him, You may in no way wash my feet to the age. Jesus answered him, If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.
Joh 13:9 Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, not my feet only, but also the hands and the head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus said to him, The one having been bathed has no need other than to wash the feet, but is wholly clean. And you are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For He knew the one betraying Him. For this reason He said, You are not all clean.
Joh 13:12 Then when He had washed their feet and had taken His garments, reclining again, He said to them, Do you know what I have done to you?
Joh 13:13 You call Me the Teacher, and, the Lord. And you say well, for I AM.
Joh 13:14 If then I washed your feet, the Lord and the Teacher, you also ought to wash the feet of one another.
Joh 13:15 For I gave you an example, that as I did to you, you also should do.
Joh 13:16 Truly, truly, I say to you, A slave is not greater than his lord, nor a messenger greater than the one sending him.
Joh 13:17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.
Joh 13:18 I do not speak concerning all of you; I know whom I chose out; but that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "The one eating the bread with Me lifted up his heel against Me." Psa. 41:9
Joh 13:19 From this time I tell you before it happens, that when it happens you may believe that I AM.
Joh 13:20 Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who receives whomever I may send receives Me; and the one who receives Me receives the One who sent Me.
Joh 13:21 Saying these things, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified and said, Indeed I tell you truly that one of you will betray Me.
Joh 13:22 Then the disciples looked upon one another, doubting of whom He spoke.
Joh 13:23 But there was one of His disciples reclining at the bosom of Jesus, whom Jesus loved.
Joh 13:24 Then Simon Peter nods to him to ask whom it might be of whom He spoke.
Joh 13:25 And leaning on the breast of Jesus, he said to Him, Lord, who is it?
Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, It is he to whom I, having dipped the morsel, shall give it. And dipping the morsel, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 And after the morsel, then Satan entered into that one. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly.
Joh 13:28 But no one of those reclining knew this, for what He spoke to him;
Joh 13:29 for some thought, since Judas held the moneybag, that Jesus was saying to him, Buy what things we have need of for the feast; or that he should give something to the poor.
Joh 13:30 Then, receiving the morsel, he immediately went out. And it was night.
Joh 13:31 Then when he had gone out, Jesus said, Now the Son of Man was glorified, and God was glorified in Him.
Joh 13:32 If God was glorified in Him, God also will glorify Him in Himself, and immediately will glorify Him.
Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek Me; and, as I said to the Jews, Where I go, you are not able to come; I also say to you now.
Joh 13:34 I give a new commandment to you, that you should love one another; according as I loved you, you should also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love among one another.
Joh 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, where do You go? Jesus answered him, Where I go you are not able to follow Me now, but afterwards you shall follow Me.
Joh 13:37 Peter said to Him, Lord, why am I not able to follow You now? I will lay down my life for You!
Joh 13:38 Jesus answered him, Will you lay down your life for Me? Indeed, I tell you truly, in no way shall a **** crow until you deny Me three times.


Joh 21:20 But turning, Peter saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, who also leaned on His breast at the Supper, and said, Lord, who is the one betraying You?
Joh 21:21 Seeing him, Peter said to Jesus, Lord, and what of this one?
Joh 21:22 Jesus said to him, If I desire him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.
Joh 21:23 Therefore, the word went out to the brothers that that disciple does not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he does not die, but, If I desire him to remain until I come, what is that to you?
Joh 21:24 This is the disciple witnessing concerning these things, and writing these things. And we know that his witness is true.

So, was Lazarus present at the Last Supper?...Or was it just Yeshua and the Twelve?...
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:32 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,045,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

>>Yeshua was there only with the 12<<

Really? What evidence do you have to support this view? Passover meals were usually large family gatherings.

Who cooked?

Another bit of evidence can be found in the gospel of John. It says that the disciple that Jesus loved remained at the foot of the cross with Mary whom he took into his house from that hour. Lazarath lived in Bethany a short distance from Jerusalem. The Apostle John's home was in Galilee about a three day journed from Jerusalem.

Mark chapter 14 can answer some of your questions regarding the Passover meal.

Regarding John and Mary...I believe it means from the moment Jesus told John to take Mary into his home, he did - meaning he took on that responsibility the moment Jesus told him to.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,630,103 times
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Joh 13:23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
Joh 13:24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
Joh 13:25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Maybe Judas is the one leaning on Jesus' bosom in verse 23. After all, why should anyone believe that Jesus didn't love Judas?

Last edited by trettep; 04-03-2012 at 08:56 AM..
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