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Franny don't let a handful of idiots help talk you out of your faith.
There are good and not so good reasons for leaving the Church and not everybody has the same tipping point.
I guess it all depends how you view the Church, is it our Church or their Church.
And sometimes you also find "fundy" type Catholics that can be as judgmental and Protestant fundies.
You are looking for reasons to leave because you do not have a Catholic mind. If you do not have Catholic cultural values then you must leave.
The best church for the gays is Episcopalian.
I am a defender of gays, but I would never leave catholicism. I also know of a southern California Catholic church where the congregation is overwhelmingly gay and lesbian. In fact, the altar servers are all gay men. NO big deal, just find the right church.
I assume you have not been to mass in a long time. The issues of birth control and homosexuality are never mentioned. The mass is all about Christ.
IN any event it is obvious you need a Bishop Spong like church.
I find that statement curious. Most Episcopalians have no problem with gay people (most of the ones that did have left by now), but not all Episcopalians are thrilled with Spong, either. Has nothing to do with gays, but more do with his disbelief in the resurrection and other basics of Christianity.
But the Episcopal church is not just all about gay people. We just welcome them and do not deny them (or women) the right to be ordained. However, in my parish, I don't think there is one gay person. Can't be 100% sure, of course, lol, but it's small, and just running through the members in my head, I don't see any. Our priests are two old straight guys, both married, one with children, one a retired Army chaplain and the other a former Catholic priest.
And in our church, the mass is all about Christ, just like yours. The difference between the Episcopalians and the Catholics is that all are welcome to Christ's table in our church.
It is not a decision I take lightly,since I have been Catholic since birth.I will meet with a Catholic priest first and discuss my differences as well as visiting other denominations in the coming months.I am also doing a Catholic homestudy course,sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.My mom was very much a fundamentalist Catholic,so I think I was turned off to certain aspects of the church during my late teens.
I was actually told by a handful of Catholics and some Protestants on a Catholic forum that "my heart and mind are not Catholic".I was subsequently kicked off that forum because I defended the rights of gays to raise children,and supported the use of artificial birth control(abc)in cases where people were married and didn't want any more children.I was told that the use of birth control was a grave sin,and that if that is what I truly believed should not receive communion.It didn't matter that I was prolife from cradle to grave.I received the same hateful response when I opposed Papal infallibility.
I have never felt in my heart that the Catholic church was the one true church,and that was another point of contention with fellow Catholics.I am going to spend the summer visiting various denominations and have decided to order the Book Of Concord and books on Episcopal church history,and then will make a decision.I would want a church that respects both my conservative and liberal beliefs.
Have you visited a church on Sunday yet?
I think that would be a good thing to try.
In either of the denominations, conservative and progressive beliefs are tolerated.
I can safely say, however, that you are most not likely to encounter a sermon that is against abortion.
Your beliefs however, will be respected.
It is not a decision I take lightly,since I have been Catholic since birth.I will meet with a Catholic priest first and discuss my differences as well as visiting other denominations in the coming months.I am also doing a Catholic homestudy course,sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.My mom was very much a fundamentalist Catholic,so I think I was turned off to certain aspects of the church during my late teens.
Fundamentalists are too strict about religion and there are some in the RCC.
I find that statement curious. Most Episcopalians have no problem with gay people (most of the ones that did have left by now), but not all Episcopalians are thrilled with Spong, either. Has nothing to do with gays, but more do with his disbelief in the resurrection and other basics of Christianity.
But the Episcopal church is not just all about gay people. We just welcome them and do not deny them (or women) the right to be ordained. However, in my parish, I don't think there is one gay person. Can't be 100% sure, of course, lol, but it's small, and just running through the members in my head, I don't see any. Our priests are two old straight guys, both married, one with children, one a retired Army chaplain and the other a former Catholic priest.
And in our church, the mass is all about Christ, just like yours. The difference between the Episcopalians and the Catholics is that all are welcome to Christ's table in our church.
Nicely said! The Episcopal and (ELCA) Lutheran Churches are not "Gay Churches", although I have heard this from conservative Christians. Gays are welcome members in both denominations.
That makes us, loving open and non-judgemental. Christlike, if yo will.
It is not a decision I take lightly,since I have been Catholic since birth.I will meet with a Catholic priest first and discuss my differences as well as visiting other denominations in the coming months.I am also doing a Catholic homestudy course,sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.My mom was very much a fundamentalist Catholic,so I think I was turned off to certain aspects of the church during my late teens.
Good for you. Don't rule out the Catholic church altogether. You might just need a more liberal parish. Talk to a newer, younger priest at a more liberal parish. Believe me, the range between liberal and conservative is covered by the Catholic church, and it can be disconcerting and confusing at times. Expect to find some "range" with the Episcopals and the Lutherans, too.
It is not a decision I take lightly,since I have been Catholic since birth.I will meet with a Catholic priest first and discuss my differences as well as visiting other denominations in the coming months.I am also doing a Catholic homestudy course,sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.My mom was very much a fundamentalist Catholic,so I think I was turned off to certain aspects of the church during my late teens.
Franny you do realise it depends on which priest you meet with will determine if you walk away with a positive or negative thoughts about your relationship with the Church, there are a lot of jerks out wearing roman collars.
I couldn't comment on the Knights of Columbus course you are taking without knowing anything about it but I will say the Knights of Columbus is a very conservative group to begin with.
I just hope you are not setting yourself up for failure with the Catholic Faith.
I was actually told by a handful of Catholics and some Protestants on a Catholic forum that "my heart and mind are not Catholic".I was subsequently kicked off that forum because I defended the rights of gays to raise children,and supported the use of artificial birth control(abc)in cases where people were married and didn't want any more children.I was told that the use of birth control was a grave sin,and that if that is what I truly believed should not receive communion.It didn't matter that I was prolife from cradle to grave.I received the same hateful response when I opposed Papal infallibility.
I have never felt in my heart that the Catholic church was the one true church,and that was another point of contention with fellow Catholics.I am going to spend the summer visiting various denominations and have decided to order the Book Of Concord and books on Episcopal church history,and then will make a decision.I would want a church that respects both my conservative and liberal beliefs.
Frannie, I'll say this just one more time. While you're visiting other denominations, include Orthodox on your list. It's like Catholicism without all the baggage. Birth control is a private matter, the Church doesn't get involved. The Church broke with the Catholics, historically, over the issue of Infallibility, so it's on the same page as you, there. If you join the Church, you'd be able to take communion. The priests are not celibate, so no problems on that score. In fact the church requires priests to be married, so they can better relate to their parishioners, and be in a better position to advise them if they seek counseling. I'm just saying, include it on your list. You might find yourself feeling at home there. Best wishes on your journey. Let us know how it goes.
Frannie, I'll say this just one more time. While you're visiting other denominations, include Orthodox on your list. It's like Catholicism without all the baggage. Birth control is a private matter, the Church doesn't get involved. The Church broke with the Catholics, historically, over the issue of Infallibility, so it's on the same page as you, there. If you join the Church, you'd be able to take communion. The priests are not celibate, so no problems on that score. In fact the church requires priests to be married, so they can better relate to their parishioners, and be in a better position to advise them if they seek counseling. I'm just saying, include it on your list. You might find yourself feeling at home there. Best wishes on your journey. Let us know how it goes.
Yes, that is a good suggestion, too.
And Happy Easter to you!
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